Is September 14 the day we finally get the official Canon EOS R3 announcement?

[Del Paso]

The 500D diopter is great but quite hard to find

I just ordered one !

 

[AlanF]

My 5DMkiv has been in the cupboard since I bought an R5 about 6 months ago. This was a deliberate move, because I wanted to concentrate on developing R5 "muscle memory" and the R5 is clearly more capable, with IBIS, higher resolution, silent shutter, faster burst speed and animal-eye AF. Today, just for the heck of it, I got the 5DMkiv out, and to be honest it felt a whole lot nicer in my hands. Looking through the viewfinder I was instantly delighted - bigger, brighter and clearer than the R5. And that nice mechanical mode dial on the 5DMkiv is so much better than the one on the R5.

Don't get me wrong, the R5 is a fantastic camera, but if Canon produced a "5DMk5" with the 45MP sensor, 1DXiii-level AF, and a quieter shutter/mirror unit, I'm pretty sure that the R5 would be the one in the cupboard, and the "5DMk5" would be my go-to camera.

Nikon made what is essentially the 5DV (apart from the noisy shutter) with a superb 45 Mpx sensor and exceptional AF for a DSLR - much better than my 5DiV. I used one for a year, and it's now the in the cupboard and the R5 is my go to.

 

[Chig]

Handling the tons of files from a burst would be much faster if you could scroll through them in a much smoother way. Like through the frames of a video. At Lightroom it takes a while to load each frame and you can only click them one by one. Unless there is a trick I do not know yet. That makes handling tons of similar images quite a pain.

If you just try to compare them by sharpness, a look at the file sizes is the fastest way. If shots are quite similar - like frames of a baseball player catching a ball - the files with the largest file size are among the sharpest. That works both with RAW and with JPEG files. Each little blur makes compression algorithms work a little better and therefore make the files a little smaller.

Photo Mechanic is the best for initial culling before Lightroom, it's super fast and it buffers several shots either side of the one you're looking at so that as you swipe through they are rendered instantly with no lag.
It's used by most sports pros to speed up their workflows . Jeff Cable recommends it on his blog https://blog.jeffcable.com/search?q=Photo+Mechanic

 

[neuroanatomist]

Let me try to explain this to you really slow so maybe you can understand. Up until the R5 was released canon's mirrorless lineup was absolutely pathetic. It was widely known that sony was stealing long time canon users. I ditched my canon dslr's when the a7iii was released. The release of the R5 was revolutionary. Enough to bring some of their customers back (me included). Although I am in limbo at the moment and using both systems. If the R3 is nothing great compared to the sony A1 (assuming they are the same price) they will not have enough sway to convince sony converts to come back to canon. I hope I explained this well enough for you to understand. You seem a bit slow.

Thanks for restating your opinion yet again. I understand that you believe that the EOS R and RP were pathetic. Canon claimed they sold well, but of course you're welcome to your opinion about their quality. Thanks also for sharing that you switched from Canon to Sony, and have partially switched back. No one but you actually cares about that.

When you state, "It was widely known that sony was stealing long time canon users," where is your evidence to back that up? I could just as easily state that it is widely known that the COVID-19 vaccine causes sterility and contains nanotrackers that the shadow government wants to use to target people with space lasers. I bet I could even find some links on the internet to 'support' that drivel...but no actual data, of course.

Your underlying assumption (note that the first three letters of that word are a-s-s) is that your choices and your observation of a handful of others are representative of a wide swath of photographers, but you have zero evidence to support that assumption. The available data clearly argue against it. Canon has not lost market share, they have gained and for the past decade have held nearly half of the ILC market share.

It is plausible that some photographers shooting with Canon DSLRs who, for some reason, felt compelled to switch to a mirrorless system prior to the R5 would have switched to Sony. Certainly some 'influencers' publicly switched, and probably not all of them were compensated by Sony. But it's equally plausible that some Canon DSLR users who wanted a MILC started using the EOS R (hint: not everyone shares your opinion of the quality of the R). Even more likely is that not all that many photographers felt compelled to switch to a MILC when their 5DIV, 5DIII, 1D X II and 1D X III bodies were working just fine with their collection of lenses.

Shall I share a bit more data? In the fall, BCN typically reports annual sales (Nov-Oct) for electronics in Japan. Here are the data specifically for full frame MILCs from October 2020, brown is Sony and red is Canon:



You can see that Sony's share of the FF MILC market started dropping when other manufacturers entered the space. I added a dotted line at the time the R5 was launched, and you can also see that Canon's FF MILC sales were doing well and significantly eroding Sony's FF MILC market share even prior to the R5. Actually, you may want to pretend you don't see that, because it's more data that show the fallacy of your position. A large swath of the market thought the R and RP were worth buying.

I will also point out that the above data are for FF mirrorless only, and Japan only. Sony actually sold slightly more FF ILCs overall (DSLR + MILC) in Japan in 2019 (38% share for Sony, 36% for Canon), but globally Canon still retained the lead in FF ILCs (along with their domination of the ILC market as a whole, of which FF mirrorless comprises <11% of the units and 25% of the revenues, those are the blue and red bars at the bottom, respectively).

To summarize, it's your opinion that, "Sony prosumer mirrorless has largely devastated canon in the past few years," yet the available data clearly show that is simply not true. You can restate your opinion using small words, or as slowly and condescendingly as you like. The facts show that your opinion is as valid as those who claim the earth is flat. Instead of restating your opinion repeatedly, why don't you provide some actual data to support it?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Photo Mechanic is the best for initial culling before Lightroom, it's super fast and it buffers several shots either side of the one you're looking at so that as you swipe through they are rendered instantly with no lag.
It's used by most sports pros to speed up their workflows . Jeff Cable recommends it on his blog https://blog.jeffcable.com/search?q=Photo+Mechanic

Thanks, looks worth checking out. I used to use Aperture for image triage, it would zip through RAW files, and the loupe made it easy to check focus. I use DxO for RAW conversions, but it’s a poor tool for image review IMO, despite some recent improvements.

 

[rick1]

Thanks for restating your opinion yet again. I understand that you believe that the EOS R and RP were pathetic. Canon claimed they sold well, but of course you're welcome to your opinion about their quality. Thanks also for sharing that you switched from Canon to Sony, and have partially switched back. No one but you actually cares about that.

When you state, "It was widely known that sony was stealing long time canon users," where is your evidence to back that up? I could just as easily state that it is widely known that the COVID-19 vaccine causes sterility and contains nanotrackers that the shadow government wants to use to target people with space lasers. I bet I could even find some links on the internet to 'support' that drivel...but no actual data, of course.

Your underlying assumption (note that the first three letters of that word are a-s-s) is that your choices and your observation of a handful of others are representative of a wide swath of photographers, but you have zero evidence to support that assumption. The available data clearly argue against it. Canon has not lost market share, they have gained and for the past decade have held nearly half of the ILC market share.

It is plausible that some photographers shooting with Canon DSLRs who, for some reason, felt compelled to switch to a mirrorless system prior to the R5 would have switched to Sony. Certainly some 'influencers' publicly switched, and probably not all of them were compensated by Sony. But it's equally plausible that some Canon DSLR users who wanted a MILC started using the EOS R (hint: not everyone shares your opinion of the quality of the R). Even more likely is that not all that many photographers felt compelled to switch to a MILC when their 5DIV, 5DIII, 1D X II and 1D X III bodies were working just fine with their collection of lenses.

Shall I share a bit more data? In the fall, BCN typically reports annual sales (Nov-Oct) for electronics in Japan. Here are the data specifically for full frame MILCs from October 2020, brown is Sony and red is Canon:

View attachment 199916

You can see that Sony's share of the FF MILC market started dropping when other manufacturers entered the space. I added a dotted line at the time the R5 was launched, and you can also see that Canon's FF MILC sales were doing well and significantly eroding Sony's FF MILC market share even prior to the R5. Actually, you may want to pretend you don't see that, because it's more data that show the fallacy of your position. A large swath of the market thought the R and RP were worth buying.

I will also point out that the above data are for FF mirrorless only, and Japan only. Sony actually sold slightly more FF ILCs overall (DSLR + MILC) in Japan in 2019 (38% share for Sony, 36% for Canon), but globally Canon still retained the lead in FF ILCs (along with their domination of the ILC market as a whole, of which FF mirrorless comprises <11% of the units and 25% of the revenues, those are the blue and red bars at the bottom, respectively).

To summarize, it's your opinion that, "Sony prosumer mirrorless has largely devastated canon in the past few years," yet the available data clearly show that is simply not true. You can restate your opinion using small words, or as slowly and condescendingly as you like. The facts show that your opinion is as valid as those who claim the earth is flat. Instead of restating your opinion repeatedly, why don't you provide some actual data to support it?

Again I am not talking about overall ILC market share. That includes low level consumer cameras. Look at the charts for full frame cameras. Do you see the downward progression of canon and upward of sony? I don't understand how I still have to explain this to you

BCNranking Full Frame japanese market analysis: Sony is crushing Canon and Nikon – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[rick1]

Nice condescending reply in an attempt to reframe your argument. You're the one coming across as not arguing in good faith. The ad-hominem attack undelines the weakness in your argument.

Do you see the downward progression of canon and upward of sony? That is sony taking canon's customers Not sure why I am still have to explain this

 

[entoman]

You might, or might not, find this thread worth a look: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/is-mirrorless-a-giant-con.40770/

An interesting thread. Here is my take:

Canon is in business to make money, and there is little doubt that their position in the marketplace would have dropped a few notches if they hadn't entered the FF mirrorless arena. They are traditionally a very conservative company, and seemed pretty reluctant to produce MILCs until Sony became a serious challenger. The motivation is always money, and in this case Sony provided the motivation for them to make money from FF mirrorless.

However I think they have done their DSLR user base a disservice. They launched the M6ii alongside the 90D, with identical sensors, giving buyers a choice - mirrorless or DSLR. I don't know which of those cameras has sold in the greatest numbers, but I see plenty of 90Ds when I'm out and about, so they must be pretty popular.

I think it's a great shame that they didn't offer a similar choice with FF, namely by launching a 45MP "5DMk5" alongside the R5. But they clearly wanted to switch all their existing customers to the RF mount, which gives Canon the opportunity to sell tones of lucrative RF glass, as well as new bodies. The 1Dxiii clearly demonstrates that a "5DMk5" could have been produced with a faster burst speed, less vibration, and a far better AF system. In certain areas it would have been a lot less capable than the R5, but at least we would have had a choice.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Look at the charts for full frame cameras. Do you see the downward progression of canon and upward of sony?

A chart showing one year of data, from 4 years ago. A time period in which Sony introduced a new FF MILC at the beginning and another in the middle, and Canon introduced only one FF camera, the EOS R, during the last month with wide availability coming after the end of the period of data shown (and therefore not contributing to the plotted sales figures in a meaningful way).

Nicely cherry-picked, not helping your case though.

Do you see the downward progression of canon and upward of sony? That is sony taking canon's customers Not sure why I am still have to explain this

Do you not realize that in this graph (which I previously posted), Sony is brown and Canon is red? Since apparently you need this explained to you, the brown line (that’s Sony, remember) is going down. The red line (that’s Canon, remember) is going up. Did I go slowly enough for you?

This graph covers a 3-year period, the other graph that you posted represents the left-most 1/3 of the graph above.

It’s now quite clear why you’re so confused – you really don’t know how to comprehend or interpret data.

 

[koenkooi]

Do you see the downward progression of canon and upward of sony? That is sony taking canon's customers Not sure why I am still have to explain this

View attachment 199920

Ehm, let's see that graph with western names:

 

[rick1]

Ehm, let's see that graph with western names:

View attachment 199922

 

[rick1]

A chart showing one year of data, from 3-4 years ago. A time period in which Sony introduced a new FF camera at the beginning and another in the middle, and Canon introduced only one FF camera, during the last month with wide availability coming after the end of the period of data shown.

Nicely cherry-picked, not helping your case though.


Do you not realize that in this graph (which I previously posted), Sony is brown and Canon is red? Since apparently you need this explained to you, the brown line (that’s Sony, remember) is going down. The red line (that’s Canon, remember) is going up. Did I go slowly enough for you?

This graph covers a 3-year period, the other graph that you posted represents the left-most 1/3 of the graph above.

It’s now quite clear why you’re so confused – you really don’t know how to comprehend or interpret data

 

[koenkooi]

And the BCN raking 2 months later....

 

[neuroanatomist]

View attachment 199926

Those data show all MILCs, not just FF (or 'prosumer' models). Do you not understand that, or did you ‘forget’ to state that? Thanks @koenkooi for linking the source data.

You've been saying for several posts that you're talking about only the prosumer market, and now you show data for all MILCs (nearly 90% of which are APS-C). Seriously, quit while you're behind. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

 

[entoman]

Nikon made what is essentially the 5DV (apart from the noisy shutter) with a superb 45 Mpx sensor and exceptional AF for a DSLR - much better than my 5DiV. I used one for a year, and it's now the in the cupboard and the R5 is my go to.

I agree 100%. The D850 was (and is) the ultimate DSLR, albeit a little bulky for my taste. I borrowed one and tested it on bird photography alongside my 5DS and 5DMkiv. The AF system on the 5DMkiv is pretty good, but the Nikon "3D" system is far more intelligent, being able to easily acquire and lock onto birds half-hidden among foliage, whereas the 5DMkiv can't, despite fully exploring all the focus cases and other AF-related options.

The D850 betters the Canon DSLRs is many other ways too, and when it was launched I seriously began to doubt whether I'd made the right choice, when I got into the Canon system 9 years ago. The problem for me was purely financial - I could have afforded (just about) to sell my Canon gear and switch completely to a D850 based system, but I didn't think the gains were sufficient to justify the considerable expense of doing so. I had other more important priorities for my money.

Ultimately, convinced by the benefits of animal-eye AF, faster burst speeds, IBIS and silent shutter, it came down to a choice between the R5 and the Sony a7Riv. I read numerous reviews, and downloaded the manuals for both cameras. Due to Covid shutting all the stores, I had no opportunity to handle an R5, but I'd handled the a7Riv and the R. After much hesitation I eventually ordered an R5, and for the most part have been very happy with it, but I do really wish that Canon had released a "5DMk5" alongside it, and given me the choice.

 

[rick1]

Those data show all MILCs, not just FF (or 'prosumer' models). Do you not understand that, or did you ‘forget’ to state that? Thanks @koenkooi for linking the source data.

You've been saying for several posts that you're talking about only the prosumer market, and now you show data for all MILCs (nearly 90% of which are APS-C). Seriously, quit while you're behind. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

You are asking me to produce data for something that is obvious. I can't find a chart for full frame market share over the past 10 years. Can you?

 

[stevelee]

It’s so obvious that there are no data. Cool.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You are asking me to produce data for something that is obvious. I can't find a chart for full frame market share over the past 10 years. Can you?

All that's obvious is that you think your opinions are facts and that you suffer from confirmation bias. The data that are available refute your opinion. I'm not the one making unsupported claims, that's you. Your inability to find data to support them is not my problem.

I will point out one major limitation of the BCN data, which is that those are from Japan only. According to BCN, in July 2021, MILCs represented ~80% of ILC sales. That's reasonably consistent with the latest CIPA data which shows that in June 2021, MILCs were 73% of ILC shipments to Japan. However, in that same period shipments globally were only 57% MILCs – clearly, Japan does not represent the global market well.

On the other hand, the Tokyo Olympics was covered by a global press pool of photographers who are by definition professionals, and more of them were shooting Canon than any other brand. Just one more example of data vs. your unsupported opinion.

 

[rick1]

All that's obvious is that you think your opinions are facts and that you suffer from confirmation bias. The data that are available refute your opinion. I'm not the one making unsupported claims, that's you. Your inability to find data to support them is not my problem.

I will point out one major limitation of the BCN data, which is that those are from Japan only. According to BCN, in July 2021, MILCs represented ~80% of ILC sales. That's reasonably consistent with the latest CIPA data which shows that in June 2021, MILCs were 73% of ILC shipments to Japan. However, in that same period shipments globally were only 57% MILCs – clearly, Japan does not represent the global market well.

On the other hand, the Tokyo Olympics was covered by a global press pool of photographers who are by definition professionals, and more of them were shooting Canon than any other brand. Just one more example of data vs. your unsupported opinion.

Again, I am referring to the time period before the R5 was released. Canon has taken back ground since the R5. I've explained this to you like 2 times. Did you get bad grades in school? Do you have data for market share of full frame cameras over the past 10 years? If so you'll see sony gaining huge ground up until the R5 was released.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Again, I am referring to the time period before the R5 was released. Canon has taken back ground since the R5. I've explained this to you like 2 times. Did you get bad grades in school? Do you have data for market share of full frame cameras over the past 10 years? If so you'll see sony gaining huge ground up until the R5 was released.

You mean data like you said showed Sony gaining ground and Canon losing ground in the FF MILC market from 2017-2020, except that you mixed up Sony and Canon on the plot so the data show the exact opposite of your conclusion?



I'm not the one who doesn't know how to read a graph, lol. My grades were excellent, all the way through my PhD.

You embarrass yourself further with each successive post. It's becoming pathetic..but OTOH, it's mildly amusing to see you flailing around, so by all means, keep going.