Rumored Canon EOS M7 camera specifications, and the end of the line for EOS M? [CR1]

[candyman]

It's an interesting rumor. What I noticed, and this has been going on long before the rumor was published on Canon Rumors, is that one of the major camera suppliers in the Netherlands now sells a lot of EF-M occasion lenses. A large part of this comes from their own stock (demo models). This includes lenses such as the 11-22, the 22 and the 28 macro. These are lenses that you hardly ever see offered as an occasion. And they sell quite a few. Usually only at 15-45 or 55-200 lenses are offered. It seems they have received a signal to empty their supply.
As you can see here: https://www.kamera-express.nl/produ...ideo/tweedehands-lenzen#?tags=738,1367&page=1

 

[Antono Refa]

hell no.

if canon cancel EF-M mount and make a new mount, I'll go to sony's a6xxx.

I still want 2 systems. 1 for when I want the best I can afford (FF). and the 2nd for portability (M/APS-C).
I don't want to use huge lenses when I need portability.

EF-M lenses have a diameter of 60.9mm, which is already larger than the RF mount's throat diameter. The RF mount's throat diameter is 10mm larger than EOS-M, and its flange distance is 2mm longer.

So my impression is Canon can switch to RF mount, make lenses the same size, and the body just a wee bit larger.

 

[Bahrd]

Ha ha, we are all biased towards the gear we own

Is the market shrinkage so significant Canon can't afford to continue this two mount diversification? In this way they are encompassing two hardly overlapping markets, I suppose.

PS
Should Toyota stop selling Tacoma because Land Cruiser is "better" (or Ford halt offering Ranger not to cannibalize F-150)?

 

[blackcoffee17]

APS-C RF mount camera might make sense.
RF mount is only 7mm bigger than EF-M, which is significant but not that big. They could still make a nice and compact camera.
Maybe not as compact as an M100 tho.

 

[Chig]

None of this makes sense , surely an R7 aps-c rf mount camera makes more sense ?
I doubt canon would add ibis to an M camera either

 

[Chig]

APS-C RF mount camera might make sense.
RF mount is only 7mm bigger than EF-M, which is significant but not that big. They could still make a nice and compact camera.
Maybe not as compact as an M100 tho.

Who cares about compact ?
Light weight is good but little dinky boxes aren’t comfortable to hold for long periods .
I have small hands and much prefer the chunky comfortable grip on my 7D ii

 

[Chig]

RF-S like EF-S makes lot more sense than the EF-M mount. Knowing Canon' history I would not be surprised if Canon kills EF-M mount altogether. If that happens, I am sure the internet will be full of people crying, weeping and whining but it sounds like no matter how many times people get burned they will keep buying Canon. That is definitely good for Canon coz now they can sell the same cameras and lens with a different mount to the same consumers . So that makes sense from business POV.

Don’t understand why Canon ever made the M cameras

 

[blackcoffee17]

Honestly, I know everyone wants smaller and lighter cameras, but I'm fine with bigger cameras because the ergonomics are MUCH better and intuitive. Was never a fan of the M line. And I gave it a chance. I own the M, M3, and M50. They are decent cameras but don't work well enough for me. Let the line die I sat

When i travel, i want the smallest camera and lenses possible. Something like the M6II has great ergonomics (3 wheels) and still very compact. But the lenses are tiny.

The 15-45 and 22mm weight 200g together!

 

[blackcoffee17]

Who cares about compact ?
Light weight is good but little dinky boxes aren’t comfortable to hold for long periods .
I have small hands and much prefer the chunky comfortable grip on my 7D ii

Yeah, i prefer the 7D too. But when im traveling or walking in a city, i rather carry a 300g small M100 or M6 with a 100g lens than a massive 7D with lens which weights 1kg together.

Its just so nice to toss the M in a backpack and take it everywhere.

 

[Chig]

I do wonder what percentage of EF-M users would even consider a full-frame camera. Let's say an M200 styled camera in RF mount would cost $550 with a lens. Is that enough of a difference for the person to not consider the RP at $1300 with a FF lens? Would people that have any interest in FF consider an APS-C starter when their kit lens and camera don't get them there? Sure they could buy this M200 with an RF 35mm f1.8, but that combo is getting close to the RP plus kit lens price. I can't see many beginners starting with a 35mm prime even though they might benefit from it. Back in the DSLR days, there was more of a reason to start in APS-C. Not until the Nikon D600 did FF really start to drop in price (I switched from Pentax to the D600 so I could try FF).

I could see Canon trying to follow Nikon for better or worse. I tried the Z50 and it is a decent camera, but it has a lot of drawbacks and will for a long time based on their lens roadmap. The current Z-mount FF lenses aren't amazing focal length combinations for a crop camera. It's totally possible Canon is willing to drop EF-M out of stubbornness.

What benefit is there to APS-C cameras in a FF mount? I guess maybe a sports focused camera if Canon had a fast and recent lower resolution APS-C sensor to source. Besides that, Canon already has RF pretty covered from $999 full-frame to high resolution with the R5. I wouldn't expect them to handle it any better than EF-S. I'm seeing 19 EF-S lenses on B&H right now with 4 of them have an aperture f/2.8 or faster.

Full-frame is a lot more accessible now than it was. I see the benefit of APS-C in the potential size of the lenses and to a lesser degree the size of the cameras (the RP is pretty small, so much so I prefer it with the grip extension). Okay, I guess people really want an 80D or 7D in RF, buy why? What would those as RF, updated to current tech, really get you over what current RF FF cameras that exist?

Fujifilm shows what dedicated APS-C can look like and it makes the most sense to me as the path of that sensor size, though maybe Fujifilm's APS-C will die out eventually... who knows. How much pricing room does Canon have in RF for APS-C? We'd probably see a bigger M200 styled camera. Maybe the sports camera if a sensor exists. What else? An M6 II with RF mount? The rest of it seems covered by current FF cameras. Right now the only recent APS-C sensor we know of is the 32mp one.

They could downsize the R5 sensor to make a 17mp aps-c sensor for an R7 I guess ?

 

[Chig]

Yeah, i prefer the 7D too. But when im traveling or walking in a city, i rather carry a 300g small M100 or M6 with a 100g lens than a massive 7D with lens which weights 1kg together.

Its just so nice to toss the M in a backpack and take it everywhere.

In that situation I’d just use my iPhone like most people, I use my 7D ii when I shoot wildlife or sport

 

[-pekr-]

I was lusting for M6 II for quite some time as an amusement camera, but realistically we are going to get R5 next spring, to support our business. M line is nice and small. If you take it for what it is, everything is fine. But having something like M7 (7D III?) without a lens transition path, is a problem imo. The problem is not in not being able to use M lens on RF body, but the reverse scenario. Of course, there is still tonnes of EF lens available, but those are EOL and such situation does not feel right imo.

I really wonder, how small Canon could get with an RF mount body plus some RF-S lens. Sure, most probably it would not be pocketable, so once again - different cameras for different scenarios, but advantage of being able to use RF mount less, is too important to be missed imo.

 

[blackcoffee17]

If they can make a good RF camera with some small and good lenses, why not. The M is great but doesn't get much love from Canon. Barely a lens a year, rarely a firmware update and only with bugfixes while the RF gets constant improvements via firmware.

 

[blackcoffee17]

In that situation I’d just use my iPhone like most people, I use my 7D ii when I shoot wildlife or sport

Smartphone is just not enough quality for me. I ideally have 2 systems. One as tiny as possible but with a big sensor and one full sized for wildlife, like the 7D or R5 with all the big glass.

 

[Chig]

Smartphone is just not enough quality for me. I ideally have 2 systems. One as tiny as possible but with a big sensor and one full sized for wildlife, like the 7D or R5 with all the big glass.

Smartphones compare fine at close quarters with compact cameras eg this photo I took with my iPhone SE

 

[blackcoffee17]

I was lusting for M6 II for quite some time as an amusement camera, but realistically we are going to get R5 next spring, to support our business. M line is nice and small. If you take it what it is, everything is fine. But having something like M7 (7D III?) without a lens transition path, is a problem imo. The problem is not in not being able to use M lens on RF body, but the reverse scenario. Of course, there is still tonnes of EF lens, but those are EOL.

I really wonder, how small Canon could bet with an RF mount body plus some RF-S lens. Sure, most probably it would not be pocketable, so once again - different cameras for different scenarios and many M users are not going to be happy, if the news is true.

I fully agree. You cannot expect people to buy an expensive and high performance M7 and not be able to share the same RF 100-500 lens with the R5/R6 they might have.

The Nikon Z50 is pretty small (with much bigger mount than EF-M) and removing the EVF could be made about the same size as the M6. Their 16-50 kit lens is also tiny and much better than Canon's 15-45.

 

[blackcoffee17]

Is the market shrinkage so significant Canon can't afford to continue this two mount diversification? In this way they are encompassing two hardly overlapping markets, I suppose.

PS
Should Toyota stop selling Tacoma because Land Cruiser is "better" (or Ford halt offering Ranger not to cannibalize F-150)?

Im afraid they won't be able to compete with Sony or Nikon in the high performance APS-C market
without a system with clear update path.

 

[Bob Howland]

Adorama did a fire sale on the M5 during last (2019) Thanksgiving and later followed by B&H. So no surprises there.

And that's when I bought my M5.

 

[blackcoffee17]

They could downsize the R5 sensor to make a 17mp aps-c sensor for an R7 I guess ?

One could get the RF 100-500 for example with an $1000 APS-C camera and have more pixels on a bird than with a $4000 R5.

 

[vjlex]

Zero sense in dumping their best selling line.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I can easily imagine the same thing being said about the 5D, 6D, 7D, XXD, and rebel lines. some of those have already been transitioned over. even the 1DX3 seems like the last of its line. "zero sense" seems a bit of an over-estimation.