*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
No, my view wouldn't change. You are merely the latest in a long line of people who create a new account, and then launch into hyperbole about how terrible Canon is, how their next camera will be a massive failure, and claim to know some photographers who have switched. Even if the last bit is true, it's anecdote and constitutes a drop in the ocean of total sales.
Also, you've posted a lot of comments and links that are so tangential to the discussion they're either trolling or utter cluelessness.
As an aside, it's funny how many people who either claim to be or to know professionals (and often claim ownership of lots of high end gear) post meaningless or irrelevant non sequiturs here.
John2016 said:
No, my view wouldn't change. You are merely the latest in a long line of people who create a new account, and then launch into hyperbole about how terrible Canon is, how their next camera will be a massive failure, and claim to know some photographers who have switched. Even if the last bit is true, it's anecdote and constitutes a drop in the ocean of total sales.
Also, you've posted a lot of comments and links that are so tangential to the discussion they're either trolling or utter cluelessness.
As an aside, it's funny how many people who either claim to be or to know professionals (and often claim ownership of lots of high end gear) post meaningless or irrelevant non sequiturs here.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Amen to that!
Go Wild said:My point is.....the most important is that you feel good working ith your equipment and when you deliver the work, your client be happy! That´s all it matters!!
Amen to that!
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
With all due respect to your years of amazing contribution on here... but dude, you need a nap or something... That's the most Fan Boy shit I've EVER heard you say...
You've already admitted that they've hindered the 5D4 and proclaimed, "... so what"... well, it's really OK that I've been backing up my disappointment with opinion that this move is going to hurt sales of this body... just because Canon is the largest maker of DSLR's in the world (by a significant margin... TREMENDOUSLY SIGNIFICANT margin...) really does mean the that they're also the largest seller of said DSLR's in the world... astonishing how that works... I guess you can also say that Apple is the largest seller of iPhones in the world too... that's a shocker!
The 5D3 was in a class all it's own when it came out, a lot of people bought them... in the years since, the world has changed and the competition has caught up (I won't say surpassed like the Sony folks because that's just not true...) and what I see Canon putting out in the 5D4 is a hobbled (because they're choosing to...) soldier. It is my opinion, and you, Neuro, somewhat backed it, that they have the capability to go back to the "class of it's own" status with the 5D4 but they have not chosen to do so... when the world has caught up (and some feel surpassed but again, I will not concede that...) and you put out mediocre options, you WILL hurt sales. I my opinion, the 5D4 spec list, which we have largely come to know CR for being right on the mark... is mediocre.
neuroanatomist said:
With all due respect to your years of amazing contribution on here... but dude, you need a nap or something... That's the most Fan Boy shit I've EVER heard you say...
You've already admitted that they've hindered the 5D4 and proclaimed, "... so what"... well, it's really OK that I've been backing up my disappointment with opinion that this move is going to hurt sales of this body... just because Canon is the largest maker of DSLR's in the world (by a significant margin... TREMENDOUSLY SIGNIFICANT margin...) really does mean the that they're also the largest seller of said DSLR's in the world... astonishing how that works... I guess you can also say that Apple is the largest seller of iPhones in the world too... that's a shocker!
The 5D3 was in a class all it's own when it came out, a lot of people bought them... in the years since, the world has changed and the competition has caught up (I won't say surpassed like the Sony folks because that's just not true...) and what I see Canon putting out in the 5D4 is a hobbled (because they're choosing to...) soldier. It is my opinion, and you, Neuro, somewhat backed it, that they have the capability to go back to the "class of it's own" status with the 5D4 but they have not chosen to do so... when the world has caught up (and some feel surpassed but again, I will not concede that...) and you put out mediocre options, you WILL hurt sales. I my opinion, the 5D4 spec list, which we have largely come to know CR for being right on the mark... is mediocre.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
This is an attitude I cannot understand. Why do you have total faith in one company and none in the other? Both have track records, both have produced products that tick some, but not all, boxes. Both have strong and weak areas.
jonneymendoza said:
This is an attitude I cannot understand. Why do you have total faith in one company and none in the other? Both have track records, both have produced products that tick some, but not all, boxes. Both have strong and weak areas.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
You were saying advice - not "camera" advice - which is not quite the same, is it? And you might get hung up on a sort of "typo" here...
privatebydesign said:
You were saying advice - not "camera" advice - which is not quite the same, is it? And you might get hung up on a sort of "typo" here...
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
I think you misunderstand the "so what" attitude: it's not that anyone here wants Canon to hold back huge improvements, it's that we accept that they will continue to do so until the competition starts taking away sales in large numbers. It's not contentment with status quo, it's the acceptance of a basic principle of economics.
You've explained why you want them to go back to "class of its own" but you have not explained why Canon would choose to do so when the current strategy is working so well for them.
I can't emphasize this enough: it's not that I (and others) don't want huge feature improvements, it's that we understand and accept economic reality. Instead of being upset with Canon for failing to meet your wishes, you should be angry with Nikon, Sony, and the rest for failing to force them to do so through market competition.
instaimage said:
I think you misunderstand the "so what" attitude: it's not that anyone here wants Canon to hold back huge improvements, it's that we accept that they will continue to do so until the competition starts taking away sales in large numbers. It's not contentment with status quo, it's the acceptance of a basic principle of economics.
In features, yes; in sales, no. In business, it's sales that count.
You've explained why you want them to go back to "class of its own" but you have not explained why Canon would choose to do so when the current strategy is working so well for them.
I can't emphasize this enough: it's not that I (and others) don't want huge feature improvements, it's that we understand and accept economic reality. Instead of being upset with Canon for failing to meet your wishes, you should be angry with Nikon, Sony, and the rest for failing to force them to do so through market competition.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
You may have business qualifications, but that doesn't make your statements any more credible. Are they a profitable company or not? Are they the market leader in this segment or not? Are their sales holding up or not?
Having a degree in something, or even a lot of work experience, doesn't make every pronouncement a person makes *even in that field* correct, especially not when it's based on gut feeling, anecdote, or instinct. Substituting evidence with personal dissatisfaction is no way to make sound judgments on anything.
instaimage said:
You may have business qualifications, but that doesn't make your statements any more credible. Are they a profitable company or not? Are they the market leader in this segment or not? Are their sales holding up or not?
Having a degree in something, or even a lot of work experience, doesn't make every pronouncement a person makes *even in that field* correct, especially not when it's based on gut feeling, anecdote, or instinct. Substituting evidence with personal dissatisfaction is no way to make sound judgments on anything.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Wow. Slow down. You're talking about 8K resolution now? Why? No one absolutely needs it and no one here can afford it. No one has the tech scaled down to a Canon C300 body. That's going to take another 5-7 years.
I'm speaking for myself. The 4K chase is a joke right now. It's trash. It doesn't make my film work any better and the cost of CFast 2.0 is way too expensive; depending on memory, it starts at $350 a pop.
1080p is fine right now and for the next 3 years. I'll take a look at 4K again in 2019. If you want to use 4K for wedding videography in 2016, that's on you. 4K eats too much memory quickly. I hate that. Most clients do not care for 4K and they don't have the monitors to see it. They just want good work at a low cost.
Also, for indie filmmakers who only care for 4K resolution, but not the quality of the story, you messed up. Most theaters only project in 1080p.
I wouldn't buy the Canon 5D Mark IV if you care about DCI 4K. We're definitely not getting that in a DSLR body. That's why they have the Canon C300 Mark II and C700. If you do not like those choices, leave Canon. I wouldn't put DCI 4K on a DSLR body if I was Canon. Stupid move; too expensive and I will not profit off of that.
As I said before, C-log is the last thing to keep me interested. If it is not there, I don't care for this camera. I hate working with Technicolor Cinestyle and Marvel's Advanced profile. It's not the same.
Also, for the others taking shots at videographers for wanting these things in a stills camera, stop it. Canon evolved the 5D line into what it is now. That's how it is. I said in previous posts that we cannot afford $10K+ digital cinema cameras. $5000 is a lot, too. We invested into the Canon lens system so there you go.
$3000-$3500 is expensive, but we can manage that.
instaimage said:Sharlin said:rrcphoto said:
No no, you see, a more general camera the way the 1DX2 is a general camera :
Just take some facts...
Let's walk through some numbers...
The 5DS/5DSR will "process" roughly (give or take depending on many factors but I just took some recent out door images I shot) 360 MB/s of "file data". This is using 72 MB per file times the 5 FPS that the 5DSR will shoot.
The 1DX2 will "process" (same give or takes, but from recent files...) 308 MB/s. This is using 22 MB files at 14 FPS.
I know those are rough figures and all the factors that can change...
Your new 5D4, if we take something in between, and I'll even go to the higher side just to accommodate the higher side of what a 30 Mgpix file might produce... Let's say a 40 MB file... your new 5D4, that also claims to do similar 4K video to the 1DX2 (which the 5DSR will not...) will only do 280 MB/s. (I think you'd be safe to say that my 40 MB file is actually going going come in more around 34-36ish which makes the numbers even worse (238-252...) so my feeling is even more pointed that Canon is following the 5D3 with a sub par option...)
So, I'm not a rocket scientist but when the 5DSR will move more data than the 5D4 (with what we know are older processors...) and the 5D4 is a newer, "general" camera... I'm sorry... I'm really scratching my head why you're OK with this hinderance of their 5D line. Let it go Canon, make it special!!
If you want more, look at the sensor size.... We know that there are people out there getting 4K from the 5D3... of course Canon's not likely happy that people are hacking their beloved 5D3 but holy crap Canon, get off the pot here... anyway, look at what would be the next jump, 8K. We KNOW that Canon is working on 8K in their cinema line... not saying that we should have 8K in a DSLR now but just consider this... 8K (7680×4320) is 33.1776 megapix. We know that the aspect ration of video is different than stills... do I need to say more? I know a lot of people don't care about video in what they're buying as a still camera... however... 30.4 megapix... How are they going to be handling 4K out of this one that's going to make it make any sense? They're not even making the 4K video as good as the 1DC (spec wise...)... if they just simply put the 1DC in the 5D body they'd be "better"... (and they do have the capacity to do that... by just simply putting in scrap parts...)
(I'm not going to bring in the 7D2 performance cause it's just more of the same, the 7D2 processor is on par with the 1DX2 in terms of MB/s processed... so... Canon? WTF!)
I mentioned that I'm hoping the CR specs are wrong... I REALLY hope CR's got some numbers wrong because this 5D4 is pretty seriously hindered and it's not even on the street yet so something else that's not in the specs is going to have to be awfully special or Canon's gonna get flamed for this one at the checkout counter. There are TOO many other options that us diehard Canon guys have to kinda ignore when we have so much Canon glass but the general consumer that have one or two lenses (or even if you're moving up from the 80D and ONLY have EF-S lenses) can fully examine and see that Canon's STILL behind the rest of the world. DO NOT take that as a "Sony fan boy" type of statement because I HATE Sony cameras... but come on Canon, really, this is all you can do? It's pretty simple to see that's NOT true...
Wow. Slow down. You're talking about 8K resolution now? Why? No one absolutely needs it and no one here can afford it. No one has the tech scaled down to a Canon C300 body. That's going to take another 5-7 years.
I'm speaking for myself. The 4K chase is a joke right now. It's trash. It doesn't make my film work any better and the cost of CFast 2.0 is way too expensive; depending on memory, it starts at $350 a pop.
1080p is fine right now and for the next 3 years. I'll take a look at 4K again in 2019. If you want to use 4K for wedding videography in 2016, that's on you. 4K eats too much memory quickly. I hate that. Most clients do not care for 4K and they don't have the monitors to see it. They just want good work at a low cost.
Also, for indie filmmakers who only care for 4K resolution, but not the quality of the story, you messed up. Most theaters only project in 1080p.
I wouldn't buy the Canon 5D Mark IV if you care about DCI 4K. We're definitely not getting that in a DSLR body. That's why they have the Canon C300 Mark II and C700. If you do not like those choices, leave Canon. I wouldn't put DCI 4K on a DSLR body if I was Canon. Stupid move; too expensive and I will not profit off of that.
As I said before, C-log is the last thing to keep me interested. If it is not there, I don't care for this camera. I hate working with Technicolor Cinestyle and Marvel's Advanced profile. It's not the same.
Also, for the others taking shots at videographers for wanting these things in a stills camera, stop it. Canon evolved the 5D line into what it is now. That's how it is. I said in previous posts that we cannot afford $10K+ digital cinema cameras. $5000 is a lot, too. We invested into the Canon lens system so there you go.
$3000-$3500 is expensive, but we can manage that.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Let's face it, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is. All the business degrees and business experience in the world won't change that.
But, the unarguable fact is that whatever Canon's business strategy might be, it has worked quite well for them for nearly a century and it continues to work for them.
My opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that Canon probably knows that a lot, maybe a majority, of their customers are "alternating model" buyers. People who skip a generation. Maybe the 5DIV won't be a compelling upgrade for 5DIII owners, but it is a huge step up for 5DII owners.
They are also probably looking at upgraders as well. I decided to forgo the 5DIV and go to the 1DX II because it better suits my own business needs. Canon isn't losing any money on my decision. There may well be a lot of 6D owners who decide to move up the chain to the 5D IV. And, there will probably be some 70D owners who make the leap to the 5DIV.
Finally, I'm sure they know their business customers very well and while those are a small group of people, they may upgrade to a new model every cycle simple because of their own use and needs. Their cameras may not last more than one cycle.
When someone on this forum lists all the cameras they happen to own, I wonder what they are trying to prove. If they are in business, I assume they bought those cameras for a business reason. If they are consumers who like to collect cameras, well that's nice, but Canon doesn't base it's business model on you, they would go broke if they did. There aren't enough buyers that fit into that category.
I have no problem with someone saying they don't care for a particular model or think it was a mistake to put or not put a certain feature into a camera. But, like many others here, I don't give any credibility to anyone who argues that a decision they don't like is evidence that Canon doesn't know its own business and customers. They know us far better than we realized.
Let's face it, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is. All the business degrees and business experience in the world won't change that.
But, the unarguable fact is that whatever Canon's business strategy might be, it has worked quite well for them for nearly a century and it continues to work for them.
My opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that Canon probably knows that a lot, maybe a majority, of their customers are "alternating model" buyers. People who skip a generation. Maybe the 5DIV won't be a compelling upgrade for 5DIII owners, but it is a huge step up for 5DII owners.
They are also probably looking at upgraders as well. I decided to forgo the 5DIV and go to the 1DX II because it better suits my own business needs. Canon isn't losing any money on my decision. There may well be a lot of 6D owners who decide to move up the chain to the 5D IV. And, there will probably be some 70D owners who make the leap to the 5DIV.
Finally, I'm sure they know their business customers very well and while those are a small group of people, they may upgrade to a new model every cycle simple because of their own use and needs. Their cameras may not last more than one cycle.
When someone on this forum lists all the cameras they happen to own, I wonder what they are trying to prove. If they are in business, I assume they bought those cameras for a business reason. If they are consumers who like to collect cameras, well that's nice, but Canon doesn't base it's business model on you, they would go broke if they did. There aren't enough buyers that fit into that category.
I have no problem with someone saying they don't care for a particular model or think it was a mistake to put or not put a certain feature into a camera. But, like many others here, I don't give any credibility to anyone who argues that a decision they don't like is evidence that Canon doesn't know its own business and customers. They know us far better than we realized.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Neuro, you're saying that Canon knows all and whatever they put out is because they're the smartest and they're going to make tremendous profits because they're the smartest DSLR company in the world...
That's Fan Boy... that's NOT you...
neuroanatomist said:instaimage said:
Let me get this straight – it's 'fan boy s___' to disagree with your opinion? Whatever, dude. Sounds like you need a time out or something... :
Neuro, you're saying that Canon knows all and whatever they put out is because they're the smartest and they're going to make tremendous profits because they're the smartest DSLR company in the world...
That's Fan Boy... that's NOT you...
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
"... collective experience of the business staff at the market-leading dSLR manufacturer."
Sorry, my inference... I apologize "all knowing one of all things Canon"... Go Neuro!
neuroanatomist said:
"... collective experience of the business staff at the market-leading dSLR manufacturer."
Sorry, my inference... I apologize "all knowing one of all things Canon"... Go Neuro!
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Err, I was going by the them of the thread and the point of the poster. Canon is crap for video 'everybody' is shooting Sony because it is vastly better. Yet the person who supposedly swapped brands doesn't even know what type of camera they are using.
So yes I was referring to camera advice, as was the comment I was referencing.
romanr74 said:
Err, I was going by the them of the thread and the point of the poster. Canon is crap for video 'everybody' is shooting Sony because it is vastly better. Yet the person who supposedly swapped brands doesn't even know what type of camera they are using.
So yes I was referring to camera advice, as was the comment I was referencing.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
Read, watch, study and stop talking about my ass:
This ones are public...
Do you know John Pardue ???
"Cinematographer John Pardue wrote in with details of how he used the new Sony A7s camera to capture an exciting nighttime action sequence as part of his work on the first two episodes of Stan Lee’s Lucky Man for Sky One,
"The chance to do large-scale action on British TV appealed enormously to Andy, and one of the biggest challenges was a nighttime boat chase along The Thames. Unlike 007 James Bond SPECTRE, we didn’t have a huge budget to light up the river; plus we only had four nights and one tank day to shoot the whole sequence."
https://britishcinematographer.co.uk/john-pardue-stan-lees-lucky-man/
http://www.alejandrodp.com/music-video-with-sony-a7s-4k-with-odyssey-7q/
http://billtotolo.blogspot.com/2015/06/sony-a7s-shooting-feature-with-pair-of.html
http://www.fourbentcorners.com/behind-the-scenes/2014/7/21/sony-alpha-a7s-first-impression-part-1-photography
http://www.richardfoxphotography.com/day-sony-europe/
http://www.diyphotography.net/sonys-a7s-tested-in-the-middle-of-the-night-yielding-impressive-results/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6Ui6rQI8k
http://staffmeup.com/profile/kennya
https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/broadcast-products-videography-how-to-shoot-2k-4k
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/a7s-vs-red-epic-dragon-technically-landslide-victory/
http://www.ziadoakes.com/news/travelling-sony-a7s
Ah and look at this: The Cage for the Sony A7S arrived in American Society of Cinematographers
web shop: http://store.ascmag.com/product-p/sku16761.htm
I know just for the desk... :
neuroanatomist said:
Read, watch, study and stop talking about my ass:
This ones are public...
Do you know John Pardue ???
"Cinematographer John Pardue wrote in with details of how he used the new Sony A7s camera to capture an exciting nighttime action sequence as part of his work on the first two episodes of Stan Lee’s Lucky Man for Sky One,
"The chance to do large-scale action on British TV appealed enormously to Andy, and one of the biggest challenges was a nighttime boat chase along The Thames. Unlike 007 James Bond SPECTRE, we didn’t have a huge budget to light up the river; plus we only had four nights and one tank day to shoot the whole sequence."
https://britishcinematographer.co.uk/john-pardue-stan-lees-lucky-man/
http://www.alejandrodp.com/music-video-with-sony-a7s-4k-with-odyssey-7q/
http://billtotolo.blogspot.com/2015/06/sony-a7s-shooting-feature-with-pair-of.html
http://www.fourbentcorners.com/behind-the-scenes/2014/7/21/sony-alpha-a7s-first-impression-part-1-photography
http://www.richardfoxphotography.com/day-sony-europe/
http://www.diyphotography.net/sonys-a7s-tested-in-the-middle-of-the-night-yielding-impressive-results/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6Ui6rQI8k
http://staffmeup.com/profile/kennya
https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/broadcast-products-videography-how-to-shoot-2k-4k
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/a7s-vs-red-epic-dragon-technically-landslide-victory/
http://www.ziadoakes.com/news/travelling-sony-a7s
Ah and look at this: The Cage for the Sony A7S arrived in American Society of Cinematographers
web shop: http://store.ascmag.com/product-p/sku16761.htm
I know just for the desk... :
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
So the 1DX MkII 4k DCI is a mirage?
Mr. Milo said:
So the 1DX MkII 4k DCI is a mirage?
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
My mistake. That DSLR does do it. Yes, there you go. I still can't afford it. $6000 and CFast 2.0 cards. Need about 4 of those cards plus 3 batteries. Easily over $8000.
privatebydesign said:
My mistake. That DSLR does do it. Yes, there you go. I still can't afford it. $6000 and CFast 2.0 cards. Need about 4 of those cards plus 3 batteries. Easily over $8000.
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image
With all the talk about specs with the 5dm4 there is little talk of the other side of the equation and that is price. The management at canon knows there is a certain price point that people are willing to pay for this type of camera and there is only so much they can offer to keep it in that price point. While we might want all more of this or that, if it costs say an extra $1500 per body at retail, how many of us are going to buy it.
With all the talk about specs with the 5dm4 there is little talk of the other side of the equation and that is price. The management at canon knows there is a certain price point that people are willing to pay for this type of camera and there is only so much they can offer to keep it in that price point. While we might want all more of this or that, if it costs say an extra $1500 per body at retail, how many of us are going to buy it.
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