Some Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
mariuspavel said:
That already exists, if you really mean "any price" - the 5D Mark IV. Buy one today!
Upvote
0
I was referring to an improvement like the difference between 6D and 5D3. If physics in sensor noise were getting in the way a few years ago we would have been left with the original digital cameras of the early 2000's.unfocused said:
P.S Rumor has it that we will continue seeing improvements in the future...
Upvote
0
tron said:
Unfocused, I'm actually with Tron on this one. Canon hasn't nerfed a sensor in FF yet as best I can tell, so I don't think it's unreasonable for 6D2 folks to expect the 6D2 sensor to (slightly) outperform the 5D4.
Now, do I think that a 6D2 sensor outperforming a 5D4 sensor is fair to $3499-paying 5D4 owners? Hell no. If the 5D4 was clearly nerfed (on the fps front in particular), I think the 6D2 should have to give something up as well -- more than just the AF setup, metering, and 1/8000 shutter (possibly). You should roundly and comprehensively get more for a product that costs 70% more than another one, and I think that starts with the sensor. I think the 6D2 sensor should be crushingly nerfed.
I know that may seem a little Grinch-y on a thread full of 6D2 fans, but much as nerfing the 5D4 in target areas will protect 1DX2 sales, the same goes for nerfing the 6D2 to protect 5D4 sales.
- A
Upvote
0
unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
ahsanford said:
My comment regarding physics was aimed at what I read as a dual demand that a 6DII sensor be better at both Dynamic Range and high ISO performance than the 5DIV.
Canon has improved dynamic range, but like all other manufacturers, those improvements primarily affect base ISO. A good example is the 80D and the 7DII. The newer sensor technology of the 80D translates into better dynamic range at base ISO, but at higher ISOs, any dynamic range advantage disappears.
As far as the 6D II vs. 5D IV and high ISO performance alone (ignoring dynamic range), I would point to the 1DX II and the 5D IV. Interestingly, the 1D X II performs slightly, but not significantly better than the 5DIV at higher ISOs. If the difference between those two sensors is small, it stands to reason that a 6D II (which will certainly have a sensor with higher megapixel count than the 1DXII) is unlikely to demonstrate much if any high ISO improvement over the 5DIV.
Indeed, what is truly amazing is how little megapixel count seems to matter in the latest generation of sensors.
Upvote
0
I did not ask for high DR ON high ISO. I asked for better DR (as I understand it is always measured where it is best, at low ISO) AND high iso iq. Exactly how 6D was better than 5D3... I believe that is what AND means. All according to Canon CEO's sayings that they always use the best sensor available. I understand that they will not be years apart but then neither 6D and 5D3 were. Also, we do not know 6D will have DP focusig capability (which MAY interfere somehow on high iso performance). Anyway it was just a wish although within reason.unfocused said:
Upvote
0
unfocused said:
Ah. My bad.
Agree on your last bit as well. The D810 and A7R II seem to crush things on all fronts in a way that drives past the old adage of 'mo pixels, mo problems'.
Hate to reference DXO here, but here are six very high quality EXMOR FF sensors of a fairly contemporary timeframe in action, and adding more resolution doesn't seem to punish... anything. (other than your hard drive.)
In fairness, the A7R II is (I believe) uniquely backlit compared to the others, but if someone can explain the freak of nature the D810 represents, I'm all ears.
- A
Attachments
Upvote
0
ahsanford said:
Newer cameras will occasionally outperform older ones, despite the price.
The 5D4 already has some selling points that set it apart from a potential 6D successor.
- Full weather sealing and body materials quality
- Bigger (for bigger lenses and handling)
- Better AF-system
- Faster shutter and faster shoot rate, bigger buffer
- More advanced software tweaks available possibly e.g. DP RAW
- Prob. 4K, I don't think we will see it in a 6D mk II
Is that worth the upgrade price (to me)? Definitely not.
The sensor is the heart of a camera, and sensor technology develops over time... no reason to cut a camera there and I don't see why Canon would do that honestly (despite the fact that I certainly don't want it to happen, I think the probability is just very high that we will see Canon's cutting edge technology going into a 6D mk II, as well as any other camera).
Upvote
0
hubie said:
Or perhaps I'll tack differently with this. Even if a down-the-road, non-1-series FF offering puts out a sensor that's better than the 1DX2 -- say, much more detail but same low performance, more DR, etc. -- the 1DX2 still lords over that new offering with a ton of 1-series exclusive goodies that the other camera does not have.
The 5D# product line lacks that punchy/exclusive 'we're better than you' feature set that demands your money. So (most) people won't think twice to snap up a 6D2 if the sensor is the same / slightly better than the 5D4 and all they lose is a heavier body, a few AF points and 4K. There's more to it than that, I concede, but whereas the drop from a 1DX2 to a 5D4 is a cliff on a number of fronts, the 5D4 to a 6D2 difference will seem like a short walk downhill in comparison.
I argue a lot of folks will gladly stroll down that mild descent and keep $1500 in their pocket.
- A
Upvote
0
ahsanford said:
And so will I. Newer sensor technology doesn't necessarily mean the sensor outperforms in all categories, especially MP count (which directly impacts signal to noise performance as we saw with the original 6D). I am fine with that. Already satisfied with my 70D's MPs.
Upvote
0
hubie said:
Good points points both of you. There seems to be two camps....1. The sensor is everything and 2. The camera is much more than just the sensor. I myself will settle for a lesser than this body or that brands sensor for a multitude of other aspects of what the body can deliver (in the right hands)
Upvote
0
Coming from a 60D, I'm in both camps. ;D Features are everything, and sensor is everything. Yup I want 200% of a camera at 50% of the cost :slclick said:
Upvote
0
To all the people who bash, scoff and attack those who have reasonable expectations of the 6D Mark II - consider this:
Nikon D750
24MP with amazing DR
Tilt Screen
6.5 fps
51pt AF which is fast and accurate
DUAL card slot
$1,897
And many other bells and whistles --
Sure, Canon glass is better and all that - but gimme a break, Nikon glass is excellent too. Canon cannot put out another over priced, under featured camera again. The value just wouldn't be there. Features in a body DO matter.
I own a 6D, the AF is limiting. The single card slot is a big liability... I like the camera, but compared to the competition, it is garbage in specs.
This is why I fully expect a 28MP sensor with good DR
45pt AF system
Dual card slot.
^ no exceptions. Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.
Nikon D750
24MP with amazing DR
Tilt Screen
6.5 fps
51pt AF which is fast and accurate
DUAL card slot
$1,897
And many other bells and whistles --
Sure, Canon glass is better and all that - but gimme a break, Nikon glass is excellent too. Canon cannot put out another over priced, under featured camera again. The value just wouldn't be there. Features in a body DO matter.
I own a 6D, the AF is limiting. The single card slot is a big liability... I like the camera, but compared to the competition, it is garbage in specs.
This is why I fully expect a 28MP sensor with good DR
45pt AF system
Dual card slot.
^ no exceptions. Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.
Upvote
0
Maiaibing said:
Some people floating the idea that the 6D2 might be a 19pt system.
Think about that - the only reason that number of AF points is even "acceptable" in a discussion is only because Canon provided the ultra-stingy 11pt system before, making this appear like a logical step up. When starved with a 2008 era 11pt system for so long, anything looks great then! Right?
But it isn't. 19pts is archaic now. Nikon has been offering up 51pts on their cameras for a long while. And, they aren't nerfed. The AF on the D750 and D7200 is very fast and accurate. It is almost as good as Canon's 5D3/4 system. Nikon AF is underrated.
With the 80D sporting 45, I expect 45 or better on the 6D. That would be fair and reasonable. But we all know Canon and their history of crippling cameras to create market segmentation. We know they will go directly against industry trends to do things their way. So I wouldn't put it past them. This is obsolete with the competition offering what it does. But as the fan-boys here chirp about all day, Canon makes money so who cares about value for the consumer.
Single slot would be another slap in the face to Canon users. Again, it is 2017....2017. Let that sink in. This camera will sell for $2,000 in 2017. Single slot + 19pt system on a $2K body will be the laughing stock of the camera world. Especially given that the sensor tech is merely average, not cutting edge.
I don't think that will happen, I think the rumor specs of dual slot will be true. I also think 45pt AF is going to happen.
Consider also, that by the time this camera is 6 months - to 1 year out on the market, its competitors will be ready with their next generation of incremental update on already competitive if not better bodies. Further stressing the value question of this camera.
At some point, for the $2000 body market segment, one has to question whether Canon glass is just that good and that worth it to put up with such a weaker body. I don't think so. It isn't that much better. The weakness of the body then overcomes the glass advantage in shooting capability. This can impact the quality or number of keepers in an event.
What will the 6D owner say - hey look! I have 2% more corner sharpness, and 2% less chromatic abb. in my 5 keepers! Whoopdie do. Where the guy with a serious AF system has 2-3x the keepers and critical moment shots.
Of course the knee-jerk reaction in here is to advise to get a 5D series "if that's what you need" ...which ignores the whole part about value and what is being offered at $2K by others.
Upvote
0
I personally think expectations in the entry to mid FF space are cosmically unreasonable. It's one thing to bemoan that Canon's prior entry level rig doesn't have D750-level specs, but that's a higher market point than the 6D.
Yet despite that, the D610, 6D, D750 all have plummeted in price since they've launched. See below from the pricewatch sites.
Yet the D810, 5D3, etc. have held their price quite brilliantly.
I don't know if this is because Canon driving a harder bargain with professionals, or potentially the A7 brand is stealing enthusiasts from the entry / mid-level FF SLR market, but there are two clearly different market dynamics at play here.
- A
Yet despite that, the D610, 6D, D750 all have plummeted in price since they've launched. See below from the pricewatch sites.
Yet the D810, 5D3, etc. have held their price quite brilliantly.
I don't know if this is because Canon driving a harder bargain with professionals, or potentially the A7 brand is stealing enthusiasts from the entry / mid-level FF SLR market, but there are two clearly different market dynamics at play here.
- A
Attachments
Upvote
0
ahsanford said:
The D750 price I got off of BH today. Unless there's a rebate going on, that graph is showing gray market price which I'm not counting.
The D750 came down to its $1,996 price and stayed there for quite a while which was its normalized non-intro price during its heyday, and during that time, the 6D, a nearly 3 year older camera with barely 1/2 of the specs was still floating in the $1,750 - $1,850 range depending on rebates and sales...
The price drop to $1,450 and $1,350 was needed as I doubt anyone would seriously consider a 6D when for just a couple hundred more you can get a specs packed D750. That's the only thing keeping that camera viable, is a correction to its proper value price of around $1,200 at best. Because really, you're dropping $1,200 to get a FF sensor of 2013 tech, that's it. This is the camera for those who want a FF and so much so, they are willing to put up with a lack of just about everything else.
You're not getting any bells and whistles. You're not even getting reasonable AF by today's standards (or even its time). You are buying a FF sensor surrounded by the barebones minimum to provide you a FF sensor.
That's what the 6D is today.
Thus, a modest upgrade in specs for the mark II would be a bad move by Canon in my opinion. I don't think there's a market place for stripped down, barebones FF cameras for $2,000. It becomes such a bad value, one ought to just shop the used or refurb market for a 5D series or D810.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
