The follow-up to the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II may come in 2019 [CR2]

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,895
1,025
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Never thought of golf as an action sport or tennis but I guess tennis could be considered quick. How someone would justify a camera being better because it makes less noise for golf is a bit of a stretch... but as my uncle always falls asleep watching it, I guess we don't want to wake anyone up!!! The guys I know who shoot golf are far away with 200-400's and 1.4 TC 's... I dont think they are waking anyone up ROFL
No pro golf is very serious and very quiet, photographers have to be silent especially on the back swing which is when many of the most dynamic images are taken. Having a silent shutter allows you to use a wide angle lens rather than a telephoto to get a much more dynamic image. It was the silent shooting for golf that was the biggie. I've shot some pro-am stuff and even then they take noise from photographers or spectators very seriously.

Pro tennis is more about the fps as they are not as touchy about camera shutters, but it doesn't hurt...
 
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ethanz

1DX II
Apr 12, 2016
1,059
304
ethanzentz.com
No pro golf is very serious and very quiet, photographers have to be silent especially on the back swing which is when many of the most dynamic images are taken. Having a silent shutter allows you to use a wide angle lens rather than a telephoto to get a much more dynamic image. It was the silent shooting for golf that was the biggie. I've shot some pro-am stuff and even then they take noise from photographers or spectators very seriously.

Pro tennis is more about the fps as they are not as touchy about camera shutters, but it doesn't hurt...
Yeah, tennis is very fast paced. Need good AF and FPS.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,988
1,343
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Never thought of golf as an action sport...How someone would justify a camera being better because it makes less noise for golf is a bit of a stretch.../QUOTE]

I shoot college golf (as well as all other sports). It is definitely an action sport. Catching that ball on a drive is very much hit or miss, even with a 1Dx II. Best shots usually come in the sand traps. The odds of catching the ball go up a lot, but you still need to stop the action and 10+ fps is pretty much required (at least for me). As for silent shutter, when a golfer is putting, it's just common courtesy to keep things as quiet as possible, even if it's just small college golf. Maybe professional golf is shot with 200-400 with teleconverter, but I'm usually using a 100-400 II and shooting from the edge of the fairway or green. 400mm, even with a 1.6x still requires you to be fairly close to get good shots.
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
77
53
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
I think you mean a 1.4TC There is no 1.6TC

If you consider golf to be an action sport, we seriously are of different schools of thought of why a sports photographer even buys a 1DXMKII to make a living.

Golfers don't move. Feet planted like a potted plant. Frame them out, shoot.... done. Hard to capture ball? Not with a 1DXMKII.
 

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
459
459
No pro golf is very serious and very quiet, photographers have to be silent especially on the back swing which is when many of the most dynamic images are taken. Having a silent shutter allows you to use a wide angle lens rather than a telephoto to get a much more dynamic image. It was the silent shooting for golf that was the biggie. I've shot some pro-am stuff and even then they take noise from photographers or spectators very seriously.

Pro tennis is more about the fps as they are not as touchy about camera shutters, but it doesn't hurt...
Serious question here. I know that good strides have been made with electronic shutters but how do they go with rolling shutter while shooting golf? Is the trade off for a silent 20fps worth the negative effect of the rolling shutter?
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
Serious question here. I know that good strides have been made with electronic shutters but how do they go with rolling shutter while shooting golf? Is the trade off for a silent 20fps worth the negative effect of the rolling shutter?
Supposedly (note: I’ve not used one, just read up on them) the readout is fast enough that rolling shutter distortion is generally inconsequential. It probably won’t surpass mechanical curtains (which roll too) until they use global shutters, however that could be next generation if they choose (canon too).
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,740
3,058
Coming back to cycle times and long in the tooth, I like the Olympus model of having long cycle times and firmware updates, followed by a very major upgrade in their flagship. Sony has got where it is by having frequent upgrades at the expense of their customers. The ATRII had rave reports from DPR etc, which took me into buying and fortunately immediately returning it as not being up to what was expected. When the A7RIII was released, 18 months later, it was described as being what the A7RIII should have been.The RX10 series is one of their extremes with upgrades from Mk1 to MkIV in 16 month steps. But, each step has seen a major improvement and the MkIV is quite remarkable. Canon tends to get things right when they release a new model, but they can be very slow with their high end models. The 7DII desperately needs to be updated.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,895
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Serious question here. I know that good strides have been made with electronic shutters but how do they go with rolling shutter while shooting golf? Is the trade off for a silent 20fps worth the negative effect of the rolling shutter?
Unfortunately I don't know personally, they say there is no problem but neither of them are camera geeks, they are sports geeks, so the truth is I wouldn't be surprised if there was some effect they might not notice it. I suppose the point is they are very happy with their migration for their very specific uses.

As for those people saying golf isn't a sport and tennis isn't an action sport, really? Roger Fedora and Phil Mickelson have higher name recognition and brand value than pretty much anyone in the NFL/NBA on a worldwide basis apart from LeBron James. Heck Serena Williams even bests Tom Brady for brand value.
 
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expatinasia

EOR R
Aug 18, 2011
1,707
3
Asia Pacific
I have the Mark 1 and II. I am not sure this CR2 will come true, but it does make me wonder whether I should sell my Mark I sharpish. There's very little that Canon can improve on with the 1D series. Sure built-in wifi, a few more fps, etc would be nice. Touch screen would only be good if can turn it off but really it's amazing.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,740
3,058
Supposedly (note: I’ve not used one, just read up on them) the readout is fast enough that rolling shutter distortion is generally inconsequential. It probably won’t surpass mechanical curtains (which roll too) until they use global shutters, however that could be next generation if they choose (canon too).
I have just downloaded several bursts at 24 fps from my RX10IV of a tournament tennis player practicing serving this afternoon. There was no observable rolling shutter from the racquet. Sony has the rolling shutter problem licked with their fast read-out sensors, and no doubt Canon will do the same in the future.
 

sportskjutaren

Pro sports photographer
FYI, i write this with 10 years of experience shooting sports.
That includes the EURO2016 and the recent FIFA WC in Russia.
(Some sample images and tear sheet from the recent WC can be found here:
https://agency.jkpg-sports.photo/index/G0000FrucfpGrwrQ )

Golf mainly with a healthy side of tennis. Both benefit from the silent shutter as tennis courts are so small, and the 20 fps allow more consistent ball touching club/racket shots and ball in frame shots. Yes we all got by without those functions, they find it more consistent and get more sale-able shots with them.
I would like to say that the photographers timing is fare more important than the FPS number on the camera.
And that 20 images per second for sure will fill your memory card with a lot of crap.

gettyimages-976221194-1024x1024_cr.jpg


Professional sports photographers generally knows how to time the photos well enough to be just fine without 20 FPS.
I actually challenged myself a couple of years ago with shooting soccer in "single action mode":
And had more keepers than i use to do otherwise.

https://blog.jkpg-sports.photo/2014/08/challenging-myself-soccer-in-shoot-mode.html

It's probably a reasonable expectation that Canon would release a 1DX3 prior to the 2020 Olympic games. If dual DIGIC 8+ processors can yield 50% more throughput than the dual DIGIC 6+ processors in the 1DX2 (I'm assuming that's not a stretch), then it's possible for the 1DX3 to sport a 30MP sensor at the same 16fps of the 1DX2 - I think the bump in resolution and improved noise management at high ISO would be welcome additions in the wake of an increasingly competitive full-frame market.

My personal wishlist for some new features on such a camera would be:
  • 30MP DPAF sensor
  • CR3 & C-RAW support
  • IBIS (hybrid OIS/IBIS mode) & high-res pixel-shift mode
  • Articulating touchscreen
  • Unlimited RAW buffer (using C-RAW)
  • Dual CF-Express card slots
  • Uncropped 4k/60fps & 1080p/240fps
  • Zebra, focus peaking, and waveform monitoring
  • XLR jack for integrated high-quality audio
  • Full cross-type phase-detection AF array
I agree on most of the above. Expect XLR, it would make the camera even bigger due to the big contact needed.
And i really don't like the idea of an articulation screen. It would defiantly increase the risk for the camera to break.
Actually the screen of the 1D-series is built in to the body in way that you can't replace it without replacing the whole back cover.
And that is for a good reason. It improves the strength of the body.

When it comes to "touch screen". Real buttons is preferred by pro photographers.
The reason for that is that we use muscle memory when we work.
Usually with one eye looking thru the OWF, So the feedback from the buttons is important. And actually makes things work a lot faster.

When it comes to memory cards, i really don't like the CF-card slot on the 1Dx mkII.
The major reason is that the read speed on the card slows down the transfer speed when you are transferring images direct from the camera thru FTP.
Someting i done several times. In order to publish images "live" on internet during sports events.
And while the images are transferring, You can't "write protect" the images.

Another thing i truly wish for is the ability to get "live transfered images" to become automatically write protected, (This is possible with the Nikon D5) . Or "tagged", so that i will be able to find them fast when i ingest the memory cards to the computer. I do use software in which i can sort images from whatever they are write protected or not. It also ingest "tagged"/write protected first, and the other images after that.
So this would actually be much useful to me.
Again, read speed on the memory cards make big difference, here as well.

Also i would like FTP transfer straight from the camera to become a bit more stable.

Another thing that would be useful to me would be an updated GPS-module. That acquires GPS-signals faster.
The reason for that is when you are working for the major agencies. Time stamps in the images truly need to be exact to the second.
And sadly, iv´e found the built in GPS to not really be that stable when i travelled all over Russia earlier this year.
(I worked in three different time zones, so this was actually a real issue to me).

I do also miss the possibility to straighten images directly in the camera.

Professionals rarely crop more than to adjust minor framing mishaps. Zoom lenses are made for those needs.. I’m not saying it NEVER happens, but there’s a very good reason why the top pro models have remained at about the same resolution for a long time,maven moving down.
Pro sports photographers do crop, & straighten, images, a lot. More than 99% i would like to say.
That said, for a "double header"/full coverage image, in a tabloid newspaper. You will be just fine with 1500 Pixels on the long side.
I.E. about 1,5 MP.
The image above is both straightened and heavily cropped.
(Shoot with 1Dx mkII and 400/2,8L IS II USM).

/Daniel.
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
77
53
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
FYI, i write this with 10 years of experience shooting sports.
That includes the EURO2016 and the recent FIFA WC in Russia.
(Some sample images and tear sheet from the recent WC can be found here:
https://agency.jkpg-sports.photo/index/G0000FrucfpGrwrQ )



I would like to say that the photographers timing is fare more important than the FPS number on the camera.
And that 20 images per second for sure will fill your memory card with a lot of crap.

View attachment 182268

Professional sports photographers generally knows how to time the photos well enough to be just fine without 20 FPS.
I actually challenged myself a couple of years ago with shooting soccer in "single action mode":
And had more keepers than i use to do otherwise.

https://blog.jkpg-sports.photo/2014/08/challenging-myself-soccer-in-shoot-mode.html



I agree on most of the above. Expect XLR, it would make the camera even bigger due to the big contact needed.
And i really don't like the idea of an articulation screen. It would defiantly increase the risk for the camera to break.
Actually the screen of the 1D-series is built in to the body in way that you can't replace it without replacing the whole back cover.
And that is for a good reason. It improves the strength of the body.

When it comes to "touch screen". Real buttons is preferred by pro photographers.
The reason for that is that we use muscle memory when we work.
Usually with one eye looking thru the OWF, So the feedback from the buttons is important. And actually makes things work a lot faster.

When it comes to memory cards, i really don't like the CF-card slot on the 1Dx mkII.
The major reason is that the read speed on the card slows down the transfer speed when you are transferring images direct from the camera thru FTP.
Someting i done several times. In order to publish images "live" on internet during sports events.
And while the images are transferring, You can't "write protect" the images.

Another thing i truly wish for is the ability to get "live transfered images" to become automatically write protected, (This is possible with the Nikon D5) . Or "tagged", so that i will be able to find them fast when i ingest the memory cards to the computer. I do use software in which i can sort images from whatever they are write protected or not. It also ingest "tagged"/write protected first, and the other images after that.
So this would actually be much useful to me.
Again, read speed on the memory cards make big difference, here as well.

Also i would like FTP transfer straight from the camera to become a bit more stable.

Another thing that would be useful to me would be an updated GPS-module. That acquires GPS-signals faster.
The reason for that is when you are working for the major agencies. Time stamps in the images truly need to be exact to the second.
And sadly, iv´e found the built in GPS to not really be that stable when i travelled all over Russia earlier this year.
(I worked in three different time zones, so this was actually a real issue to me).

I do also miss the possibility to straighten images directly in the camera.



Pro sports photographers do crop, & straighten, images, a lot. More than 99% i would like to say.
That said, for a "double header"/full coverage image, in a tabloid newspaper. You will be just fine with 1500 Pixels on the long side.
I.E. about 1,5 MP.
The image above is both straightened and heavily cropped.
(Shoot with 1Dx mkII and 400/2,8L IS II USM).

/Daniel.
I crop and crop and crop. Shooting with primes you have to. Perfectly good and would rather have full image of my choice. We all try and fill our frames to optimize resolution.
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
77
53
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
One thing is for sure here and kitesurfing is lame. It’s repetitive aswell so you could shoot on anything.
You make yourself sound like a photo god rolling into town on your gold wing meat loaf blaring.
Times change you’d be best advised to catch up a bit.
You are arguing with yourself.
Traveling from Hawaii, to Bora Bora, to Aruba and the U.S. to shoot kitesurfing I can assure you it's not lame. The athletes, sports magazines, fans and equipment manufacturers would disagree. Kitesurfing will now be an Olympic Sport. There are 5 top kitesurfing photographers in the world 3 of them also shoot fashion. And two are just as well known in Paris, London or New York for Vogue, Fashion Week as well as Sports Illustrated and Extreme Sports. Having worked with CPS very closely anyone will say I'm not a fanboy. Mirrorless is not ready and the 1DXMKII will out shoot the D5 in equally capable hands. Start looking at the Aruba Kitesurfing community then move to Hawaii. I hope you'll see some amazing work by talented photographers who are dedicated to capturing shots that evoke emotion. Good luck to you!
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,138
1,077
Alberta, Canada
All of us tend to form opinions based sometimes on too limited information. In that case they may have some validity or be quite in error so it's safer not to express them. Personally, I think it's stated well in a nursery rime about a wise owl who sat in an oak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wise_Old_Owl:) You guessed it, my kids tend to hate my advice.;)

I'll be very surprised if the 1DX2 is the last DSLR version but beyond that I won't venture a prediction.

Jack
 
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GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
77
53
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
I spent a couple decades in publishing and I could count on one hand the number of times I published an uncropped image. That's an internet myth. In fact, the better photographers I published intentionally shot "loose" so that art directors and layout artists wouldn't have problems with composition. I've seen far more artwork discarded for being shot too tight than for having to be excessively cropped. We may have different definitions of who are and are not "professionals".

edit: Sorry if that makes me sound like a jerk. Amazon has been telling me for the last six hours that they are only two stops away with my delivery.
Every Editor, wants space for copy or the crop they want. Rarely is a photo not cropped.... with the exception of portraits.... Don't mess with my portraits :) :)