Bought a 7D, considering exchanging for a 60D. What would you do?

[Chosenbydestiny]

It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Keep the 7D.

I'm all for that saying although in this case I see a limit to it. Because if this saying were 100% true we should all own multiple 1Dx bodies for backup on the field and some at home. In this case, the OP wants to venture into video work. There were many issues for me with my 7D for video use in the past that caused me to sell it and buy 3 60Ds eventually. What people hardly factor in to video work is size and weight for support systems. Lighter is ALWAYS better in regards to DSLR video support systems, especially if you're in the exploration stage. You'll save more money than just the transition between 7D and 60D, you'll also save on the accessories in the future. The 60D is still a more perfect video body at this point than the 7D. Why? It's the lightest and most versatile body with natively adjustable kelvin, ISO 1/3 increments, and easier aperture dialing which you can't get from the lightest weight xxxd cameras without magic lantern. Another thing about magic lantern, is that the 60D is the only body that makes full use of every ML feature. The 7D is still in alpha... You'll have to wait quite awhile before the port is finished. The 60D works great NOW. The swivel screen is very useful for video and there's no problem getting another viewfinder like zacuto's zfinder on it for video. Like other says in this thread, audio is very important. The 60D's soundboard is also still the most adaptable and if you're planning to plug a zoom h4n, rode mics, lavaliers, etc into it you'll have no issues. I know this because I shot video with three 60Ds for over a year with many different support and audio systems. The 7D tends to have issues up to now even with the latest firmware, especially with the alpha ML on it as one of my colleagues ended up trashing ML and had to go blind with no audio monitor for the rest of the event. Not cool. I'm not saying that the 7D is incapable of doing good video, but you'll sure as hell have a much easier time on the 60D. It's really the best budget cinema camera out there. Now if you're a photographer all the way, different story, keep the 7D if so. But I'd still rather have two 60Ds than one 7D for video any day.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I would not buy a 60D because it does not have AFMA. That means that the body cannot be tuned to my fast prime lenses. If you are using smaller apertures where the focus errors get lost in the depth of field, a 60D is fine. But, if you want to move up to fast wide aperture lenses, they always have a little AF error, and sometimmes a lot of error. I'd take a used or refurb 7D over a 60D any day. That doesn't mean that the 60D is not a fine camera, it just means that you might be disappointed if you try to use fast lenses with it.

 

[picturesbyme]

Wow, terrific photos! Congratulations! I myself felt like buying quite a few...
(On the other hand, I wish I hadn't seen your work; now I can't blame my 60D anymore...)

Thank you Daniel.

 

[Halfrack]

3 things:

- if you want to return the 7d, get a used 5d mk2 - lots of them out there, at good prices (~$1300)
- get setup with a follow focus rig, I didn't see it in your list of gear - and there are some slick usb versions that work with the 5d2's but not the 5d3's - save some money
- bypass the RAID 0 on the MBP - get a SSD

 

[Radiating]

I understand my needs may be different than yours. I'm curious as to what YOU would do. Not necessarilly what I should do, but what you would do. Background:

I consider myself an advanced amateur. I originally had a 60D, but sold it at the beginning of last semester to focus more on school (and knowing that the body would inevitably experience a price drop soon. Glad I sold it when I did!). I thought I could live without for a year, but I couldn't take it anymore and I bought the 7D a couple of weeks ago for $1030. Now I can get the 60D for $560. That makes the 7D an extra $470, or 84% more. I don't do sports photography or BIF. The closes thing to fast moving is my kids playing, so I don't really need the 7D AF. Before I sold the 60D, I was doing some smaller paid video gigs. I would like to take that to the next level. I would like to do TV commercials for local companies and product advertising videos as well as what I was previously doing. I live in a small(er) town, and the ONLY competition is the local cable company who makes horrendous commercials. One concern of mine, Is it unprofessional to take a 60D to a shoot? Like I said, I only did smaller paid gigs, and nobody really knew anything about my gear. I was still a bit self conscious bringing my 60D, even on the smaller gigs. I did keep all my other video equipment when I sold the body since all the other items don't lose value so fast.

Why I would keep the 7D:

• 1080 HDMI output durring recording. This is pretty important to me, but alone doesn't quite justify the extra $470. Almost though because the screen going black on the 60D upon pressing record is incredibly annoying.
• Magnesium alloy body. For obvious reasons over the 60D's polycarbonate. This, however, isn't as big of a deal, as the 60D's body is still good.
• The 7D will have a better resale value. Again, though, this isn't as important as I can't really see myself selling it in the near future. Upon purchase of my next body, the 7D/60D will become my back-up.
• The AFMA and better AF of the 7D will be invaluable IF I end up actually needing that in the future. IF.
• It looks good in my hands

Why I would exchange the 7D for the 60D?
$$$$

So, what would you do personally if you were trying to decide between the 60D and the 7D? And, I suppose, what would you do in my situation?

I would get a 5D Mark II in your position. Lightly used they run less than $1200 and will have stellar resale value. Expect the 7D to crash in resale value to less than $700 soon.

 

[trygved]

So you've your glass and equipment mostly sorted out (and I'm also of the mindset of renting high-end equipment vs. buying entry level equipment)!
In that case, I absolutely say stick with what you have, and use every cent from those first few gigs to sport the 5DIII.
Give the local cable company a run for their $$$

 

[DanielW]

I would not buy a 60D because it does not have AFMA. That means that the body cannot be tuned to my fast prime lenses. If you are using smaller apertures where the focus errors get lost in the depth of field, a 60D is fine. But, if you want to move up to fast wide aperture lenses, they always have a little AF error, and sometimmes a lot of error. I'd take a used or refurb 7D over a 60D any day. That doesn't mean that the 60D is not a fine camera, it just means that you might be disappointed if you try to use fast lenses with it.

AFMA is the only reason I'm upgrading my 60D in the near future. I'm alright with some noisy high-ISO, and would keep the 60D had Canon cared to release firmware to address that.
And if indeed the current 7D sells for $700 or less when the mk2 is out, as Radiating thinks, well, then I'll not only buy it but also keep my 60D as a backup. (Geez, I feel like a pro!)

 

[CarlTN]

Interesting...I think I might do the same...if the 7D actually falls to near $700 when the mark 2 comes out (especially if the mark 2 is ~$2k or above)...assuming that's not a "refurb" or used price. A new 7D for $700, yea that would be sweet. Then I might actually be able to buy both a 7D and a 6D...or else just a 5D3. At least the choices would be many. However, the 7D2 may not actually hit the market til Christmas '13, and I want a new camera before then...preferably by October.

 

[eyeland]

Do you really think it will drop that much in price if the mk2 is priced so aggressively?
Was just about to pull the trigger on it and then it actually went UP in price this week.. sheesh
Then a friend started ranting about the chance of overheating the 7D during long video takes and the uncertainty concerning full functional ML release and thus I am back in the cursed state of mind, similar to the OP...
7D (AF-selector, build, HDMI-out, C1,2,3 for video, slightly bigger VF, AFMA, chance of overheating) vs 60D (Price, articulated LCD, ML) Meh

 

[expatinasia]

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

 

[nolken]

I seriously doubt that the 7D will drop that low in price.

The 5D mark ii was introduced at $2699. It now has a MSRP of $2199. That is a 18.53% price drop.
The 7D was introduced at $1699. It now has a MSRP of $1399. That is a 17.66% price drop.
That is pretty close. We all know how business like to follow patterns. They probably did their market research and determined these are the appropriate deprecation values.

The 5D mark ii now has a rebate of $400. That gives you a 33.35% Total price drop.
The increase in saving percentage for the 5D mark ii MSRP to the price minus rebate is 180.0%

If the 7D is to follow the same pattern:
A 180.0% increase from 17.66 is 31.79%. That would drop the price minus rebate to $1159. We know the 7D's MSRP will not change again, so that only leaves the rebate to change. My guess is that the rebate will either stay the same or increase to $300 leaving the price minus rebate to $1099. I can't imagine it going lower than that new.

 

[nolken]

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

the 50D doesn't have video.

 

[nolken]

Do you really think it will drop that much in price if the mk2 is priced so aggressively?
Was just about to pull the trigger on it and then it actually went UP in price this week.. sheesh
Then a friend started ranting about the chance of overheating the 7D during long video takes and the uncertainty concerning full functional ML release and thus I am back in the cursed state of mind, similar to the OP...
7D (AF-selector, build, HDMI-out, C1,2,3 for video, slightly bigger VF, AFMA, chance of overheating) vs 60D (Price, articulated LCD, ML) Meh

I have been experimenting with the magic lantern alpha build for 7d, and i must say it is very promising. all of the features that i find most useful are working wonderfully. There is even some talk about the chances of a clean HDMI out. only problem is i have to re-load it every time the viewfinder shuts off. this is purposely done by the magic lantern team because they don't want to modify the boot flag for an alpha version.

 

[expatinasia]

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

the 50D doesn't have video.

Like I said in my post, the 50D does have video but you have to use ML (magic lantern) to get it. But overall the 50D is a better camera than the 60D, and has some benefits such as the sealing, body and AFMA etc.

Plus, I would imagine they are very cheap right now.

 

[nicku]

I understand my needs may be different than yours. I'm curious as to what YOU would do. Not necessarilly what I should do, but what you would do. Background:

I consider myself an advanced amateur. I originally had a 60D, but sold it at the beginning of last semester to focus more on school (and knowing that the body would inevitably experience a price drop soon. Glad I sold it when I did!). I thought I could live without for a year, but I couldn't take it anymore and I bought the 7D a couple of weeks ago for $1030. Now I can get the 60D for $560. That makes the 7D an extra $470, or 84% more. I don't do sports photography or BIF. The closes thing to fast moving is my kids playing, so I don't really need the 7D AF. Before I sold the 60D, I was doing some smaller paid video gigs. I would like to take that to the next level. I would like to do TV commercials for local companies and product advertising videos as well as what I was previously doing. I live in a small(er) town, and the ONLY competition is the local cable company who makes horrendous commercials. One concern of mine, Is it unprofessional to take a 60D to a shoot? Like I said, I only did smaller paid gigs, and nobody really knew anything about my gear. I was still a bit self conscious bringing my 60D, even on the smaller gigs. I did keep all my other video equipment when I sold the body since all the other items don't lose value so fast.

Why I would keep the 7D:

• 1080 HDMI output durring recording. This is pretty important to me, but alone doesn't quite justify the extra $470. Almost though because the screen going black on the 60D upon pressing record is incredibly annoying.
• Magnesium alloy body. For obvious reasons over the 60D's polycarbonate. This, however, isn't as big of a deal, as the 60D's body is still good.
• The 7D will have a better resale value. Again, though, this isn't as important as I can't really see myself selling it in the near future. Upon purchase of my next body, the 7D/60D will become my back-up.
• The AFMA and better AF of the 7D will be invaluable IF I end up actually needing that in the future. IF.
• It looks good in my hands

Why I would exchange the 7D for the 60D?
$$$$

So, what would you do personally if you were trying to decide between the 60D and the 7D? And, I suppose, what would you do in my situation?

I believe the extra money worth every $$$.
why:

- as you saying no near future replacement... shutter durability (100k clicks)
- way better weather sealing
- AFMA - very, very important. even my L lenses need some degree of adjustment. I manage to get the lenses from sharp ( when using wide open aperture) to very sharp.
- and the 7D AF is light years ahead of the simple ( almost 10 years old) 9 points AF

 

[nolken]

If you really wanted to get rid of your 7D and save some cash in the process. Why not get a 50D instead of a 60D. Some say the 50D is the better camera and it has AFMA, but no video unless you use ML.

the 50D doesn't have video.

Like I said in my post, the 50D does have video but you have to use ML (magic lantern) to get it. But overall the 50D is a better camera than the 60D, and has some benefits such as the sealing, body and AFMA etc.

Plus, I would imagine they are very cheap right now.

oh ha i see it now, i skipped the "but no video"" part. I didn't know the 50D was capable of video with ML

 

[papa-razzi]

I haven't used a 60D, but read a bunch about it when it was released. 7D has a much better AF system, more FPS, a CF card vs SD, and AFMA. The 60D has the flip screen. The cameras share the same sensor.

You asked what I would do vs. what I think you should do. If I didn't shoot sports, I personally wouldn't have spent the extra few hundred $$$ on the 7D, but gone with the 60D instead. The extra FPS and the AF system where the main reason I went with the 7D.

I don't think people care what equipment you have, they care about the results.

 

[eyeland]

I thought that the 60D was rated for 100k Clicks and the 7D for 150K?

 

[nolken]

I thought that the 60D was rated for 100k Clicks and the 7D for 150K?

this is true.

 

[jhpeterson]

I'd keep the 7d.

While the swivel screen and difference in price make the 60d appear more attractive NOW (you know, the "always greener..." sort of thing), you'll likely soon realize the advantages of the 7d (like the screen that doesn't black out when you press record) outweigh the negatives.

Besides, one more thing the 7d has going for it is its better build. You say you're plan to produce advertising videos. One of the most important factors in choosing equipment to do commercial work, is reliability. It is both personally embarrassing and costly in terms of business when an item breaks down, even if it is only for small-town clients (maybe more so, since you may have to live in the same community as them). The near-certainty that a piece of gear will keep working in difficult situations is what labels certain cameras as professional, and, in turn, gives the photographer greater confidence in appearing as a pro.

Coming from someone who doesn't really trust anything below the level of the 1D series, perhaps my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. And, as I shoot on the ocean about 100 days a year, my cameras have been know to acquire a few of them!