Canon EOS M50, More Images and Specifications

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Iago said:
I had hopes for this camera until I saw it shared this new sensor with the new T7. I suspect the Dynamic range will be an issue.

::)
yes because it's been an issue for the 80D,etc which also use a 24MP sensor.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
LSXPhotog said:
This camera has some very impressive specs. It outclasses the EOS M5 and is going to cost less? Man...

for stills it's still no where close ergonomically to the M5 sans *maybe* the new raw format and AF improvements.
 
Feb 22, 2018
1
0
Portland, OR
Two things that will make me sell my Sony in a heartbeat.

Larger support for codecs and 120 fps for slow mo video. Come on Canon! I miss the color science and lens selection but having a separate camera for slow mo and shitty codecs are killing me. I don't want to lug around a giant as 1DX
 
Feb 22, 2018
7
0
rrcphoto said:
Iago said:
I had hopes for this camera until I saw it shared this new sensor with the new T7. I suspect the Dynamic range will be an issue.

::)
yes because it's been an issue for the 80D,etc which also use a 24MP sensor.
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor, and maybe new. I hoped it might be what would be going into the 90D, since it showed up in the T7, it is a valued manufactured sensor. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera. The last new sensor I am aware of was for the 6D Mark II, I did buy that camera, it could be better. I want Canon to be successful. They seem to be making bad choices.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,419
921
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.
 
Feb 22, 2018
7
0
jolyonralph said:
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.
EOS 750D is 24.2 and the 80D is 24.2 They are different sensors with different DR results. SL2 and 80D same DR results. So I beleive the this new 24.1 and 24.2 from the 80D are different.
 
Feb 22, 2018
7
0
Iago said:
jolyonralph said:
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.
EOS 750D is 24.2 and the 80D is 24.2 They are different sensors with different DR results. SL2 and 80D same DR results. So I beleive the this new 24.1 and 24.2 from the 80D are different.
Then again, if this is a new sensor, it may provide some sort of benefit for video. Maybe higher bandwidth to the DIGIC 8??
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Iago said:
jolyonralph said:
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.
EOS 750D is 24.2 and the 80D is 24.2 They are different sensors with different DR results. SL2 and 80D same DR results. So I beleive the this new 24.1 and 24.2 from the 80D are different.

the 750 was a prior generation sensor, it wasn't even DPAF. why is this even in this conversation?
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
758
104
rrcphoto said:
thinking about this camera, it really sounds like canon decided to make the choice camera for vlogging.

external mic, don't care about headphone jack, minimal controls and a front facing screen that you can still attach a mic on the hotshoe

if this camera fits in with the sub-$799 pricing, Canon in one shot probably put themselves back squarely into the vlogging conversation. DPAF, Canon colors, fully articulating screen and 4K? there's nothing missing from that for even the fastidious of vloggers. the mic jack could have been placed better, but that's a minor complaint really.

vloggers have been moving back to 1080p Canon cameras just for the color and DPAF, this should worry the panasonics of the world that their low end vlogging capable cameras like the GX85 are no longer safe.

this all goes out the door if it's MJPEG, or priced alot higher. or has a horrendous 4k crop.

But for now it's looking like a pretty good camera for that segment of the market that Canon for the most part has ignored.

Agree with all this. Would have been nice to have a headphone jack, but knew Canon wouldn't do that. No 30p doesn't bother me and it's a smart way of ensuring those who need 4K frame rates for commercial work have to buy higher end models.

Only thing left to discover is codec and bitrate and whether they have left moire and aliasing in the 4K or made it clean.
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,082
363
Vancouver, BC
jolyonralph said:
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.

Shhh. The 6000x4000 makes more and better pixels on the m5 because 24.151 is bigger than 24.1498!

I mean, it's like the Olympics. Do you want a gold or silver medal? That one thousandth of a point is the difference maker!
 

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
1,365
1,267
Turku, Finland
Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.

The M50 sensor is an evolutionary architecture upgrade compared to the 80D&co. We know this without counting pixels. After all, 88% of the photosites are dual pixels compared to just 66% or so in the previous generation. It also supports 4K, full e-shutter, etc, all of which most likely require some changes to sensor architecture. Any of those changes could lead to a few tens of thousands fewer masked pixels for whatever reason. It might even have a brand new fab process.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
378
248
Can somewhere address what all this means?

"Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide in live view image display range)
The selectable AF point is a corresponding lens with a maximum of 143 points (99 points for non-compatible lenses)."

How great of an improvement can we expect and why do some lenses have more auto focus points?
 

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
1,365
1,267
Turku, Finland
Adelino said:
Can somewhere address what all this means?

"Dual pixel CMOS AF with greatly improved performance
AF area is enlarged by about 38% with corresponding lens (100% vertical × 88% wide in live view image display range)
The selectable AF point is a corresponding lens with a maximum of 143 points (99 points for non-compatible lenses)."

How great of an improvement can we expect and why do some lenses have more auto focus points?

Uh, about 38% improvement? ;) In current DPAF models only the center 80% of the sensor, in both width and height, are dual pixel, so roughly 66% of total sensor area. With the new sensor, you can use the whole sensor height and 88% of sensor width to autofocus. Furthermore, the individual selectable AF zones are smaller and more numerous.

Just like with discrete PDAF, it's more difficult to get enough phase information to autofocus at the edges of the image circle due to optical and geometric reasons. And just like with PDAF, with some lenses you can use fewer AF points than with others (AF points/zones at the edges may not be available).
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Sharlin said:
Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.

The M50 sensor is an evolutionary architecture upgrade compared to the 80D&co. We know this without counting pixels. After all, 88% of the photosites are dual pixels compared to just 66% or so in the previous generation. It also supports 4K, full e-shutter, etc, all of which most likely require some changes to sensor architecture. Any of those changes could lead to a few tens of thousands fewer masked pixels for whatever reason. It might even have a brand new fab process.

you're over thinking ;)

all they probably did is improve the periphery DPAF points on the same sensor tech which explains the wider AF coverage.

a DPAF sensor has ALL points split in half in dual pixel mode, but can't use them all because of light angle of incidence causing problems.

the hurdle to DPAF sensors already required a massive shift in fab processes, more wouldn't be necessary for this unless they have snuck in a stacked sensor. canon's probably running somewhere around a 100-160nm or less design rules to get the right barriers small enough between the two halfs of the pixels.
 

tiggy@mac.com

R5
CR Pro
Jan 20, 2014
695
584
Thetford, VT
www.camnostic.com
Test Bed Platform

This appears to have genuinely new stuff, put in an entry-to-mid line. That shouts out, "Test Bed!" especially because it's not filling in an expected lineup hole nor updating an older entry in an existing position.

The dual IS, new raw, baked-in DLO, and probably 4 other things appear to be completely novel.

Canon wants to see if things fail, take off, are important to certain sales segments, etc. This means that it requires some time to get that data from the market. Remember how dual pixel came out with the 70D? They didn't jump it into their 1DXII or even their 7DII.

The implication of this is that we are likely to see some of these features jumped into upgraded versions of higher level cameras as they are refreshed, but Canon will wait a couple years before including them in the specs of its highest lines. Or, more accurately, they will include them in the specs for their to-be-produced cameras months after they have the data, but it will be a couple years before those cameras get released.

The DLO is the most interesting thing here when it comes to the prospects of third party lens makers. DLO is in essence a software corrective element that is super effective. But it is a bit of a joke if you must use Canon's terrible software to employ it (and, to date, you did need to). Having that baked into the raw may be a big incentive to stick with Canon glass, as DLO does not support third party lenses. I have more Sigma glass than Canon glass, but often the competition was close. With a baked-in DLO, that might go the other way.
 

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
1,365
1,267
Turku, Finland
rrcphoto said:
Sharlin said:
Guys, seriously. Stop overthinking.

you're over thinking ;)

all they probably did is improve the periphery DPAF points on the same sensor tech which explains the wider AF coverage.

Touché :p I guess I did fall into the same trap. I was wondering about the all-dual-photosites thing; I guess the existence of DPRAW proves that all the pixels are split in a DPAF sensor. So the enlarged AF area is probably implemented by improving the microlenses or waveguides; indeed Canon has had a couple recent patents about that sort of stuff.
 

Diltiazem

Curiosity didn't kill me, yet.
Aug 23, 2014
197
72
jolyonralph said:
Iago said:
80D and SL2 etc have a 24.2 MP sensor, this is 24.1 a different sensor. and maybe new. The 80D sensor would make this a nice camera.

The 24.2 MP and 24.1MP are just different marketing figures, all these sensors are exactly 6000 x 4000 pixels or 24.0 megapixels in raw output.

Yet to be announced 2000D also has a 24.1 MP sensor. So, maybe this is Canon's new sensor.
 
Feb 22, 2018
8
7
Croatia
rrcphoto said:
luka28 said:
these are great specs!

can't wait for M5 mark II that camera is going to be a beast!!

now all we need is lenses...

I'm not sure what lenses I need. I'm perfectly happy with what i have. Maybe a more upscale 15-45/4. but really? the lenses are great. I don't do primes, and I would assume there'a lot of people like me.

Also what is really missing with this camera is a CINI lens more than anything.

as far as the camera, it's certainly looking like great things for a M5 Mark II and even the M6 Mark II.

ok you are not a primes guy but a lot of people is, I would like to see that new 32mm in f1.4 variant, than also 55mm or even some 135 equivalent that would be great. and for zooms, well 15-45 2.8 I would buy it first, all in all there is a lot lenses missing, but it's good that we can adapt lenses and that there are manufacturers like samyang :)