Canon EOS R5 firmware update coming soon, RAW light to be added? [CR2]

[Baron_Karza]

I'm not sure there is a straightforward answer to that. I read that it was a ransomware attack, so it would all depend on how that was done, what was being demanded, etc.

You're right!

So when I read things like: "its really bad that company like Canon taking so long to fix it", I know they don't have any idea about what is really going and and if they did, they really don't understand all the IT effort involved in not just bring it back up, but also all the certifications, security improvements and testing required to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not like they just need to push a button on a server.

 

[Jonathan Thill]

You're right!

So when I read things like: "its really bad that company like Canon taking so long to fix it", I know they don't have any idea about what is really going and and if they did, they really don't understand all the IT effort involved in not just bring it back up, but also all the certifications, security improvements and testing required to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not like they just need to push a button on a server.

Spot on.

Canon is going to first try and crack it by paying anyone but the MAZE group to see if their hackers are better then MAZE's. While that is going on Canon is doing an audit of all the possible data involved to see if they can simply restore with off site back-ups.

The most critical things are:

1. How did they (MAZE) get access?
2. Are they still in the system.

It makes no sense to restore from backup if they can just get in again or are still in.

 

[mppix]

Thanks, I do agree. What I don't know (sorry if I didn't explain well), is how well hardware encoding works in terms of compute required and therefore heat etc?

As you rightly post, 8K real time in sw? Yep if you have stupid hardware. But a tiny Digic chip can do x265 8k30 in realtime. I'm just curious as to how much power the x265 and x264 takes and whether they are the same or not (in terms of HW compute effort), or if they mirror software where x264 is quicker (and thus could be a possible trade off - quicker encode effort - less heat vs more i/o and additional heat)...

Good question. In HW GPU encoding (I use nvenc), I never noticed a relevant difference between h264/h265 encoding, which seems to be confirmed by

Premiere Pro 14.2 H.264 and H.265 Hardware Encoding Performance

In the 14.2 version of Premiere Pro, Adobe has added support for GPU-based H264/H.265 (HEVC) hardware encoding with both NVIDIA and AMD GPUs. How well does this feature work, and how much faster is it than the previous hardware encoding that utilized Intel Quicksync?

www.pugetsystems.com

This does not mean much for microcontrollers where you count fractions of watts. However, encoding may be quite efficient (or at least not be the bottleneck) as 8K RAW vs 8K h265 have similar recording times in the R5.

 

[mppix]

The HQ modes sample from a higher resolution, but output at 4K - that downsampling requires Digic processing.

Non HQ modes - no sampling, less data (vs 60FPS or higher modes). Hence your 4k30p is ok - you're taxing Digic less and the I/O less.

Do you happen to know how non-HQ samples? Is it some form of pixel-binning or line-skipping?

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Do you happen to know how non-HQ samples? Is it some form of pixel-binning or line-skipping?

@mppix it has been said to be a bit of hybrid of both pixel-binning and line-skipping but only Canon knows for sure at this point.

 

[adrian_bacon]

Let's hope this will kill all the talk about overheating once and for all.

for the users that want to shoot full frame in the higher quality modes, yes, canon at a minimum needs to fix the recovery times. That being said, if you’re on a shoot with a C-300 mark 2 or mark 3 as your A camera, and want use the R5 as a B camera, it does shoot oversampled 4K in 1.6 crop and doesn’t seem to have any record limits outside of the 30 minute per clip that canon has always done. given that it’s oversampled,, it’ll probably look better than the footage from the C300 which isn’t oversampled. If you do that, you’ll have roughly the same effective sensor size between the two and can use the same lenses.

 

[mppix]

@mppix it has been said to be a bit of hybrid of both pixel-binning and line-skipping but only Canon knows for sure at this point.

How do you actually do pixel binning with CMOS sensors? Is there any ILC manufacturer that does this?
I can only think of the following two ways:
- Quad-bayer sensor (like smartphone cameras): combine adjacent analog photo sites (this would need a complete rewrite of Canon's internal demosaic + image processing tools)
- Oversampling/combine digital readout of photo-sites (likely HQ mode)
- Mystical circuit that takes the analog average of two non-adjacent pixels after amplification and before ADC. This is possible in theory but you'd need to read 4 lines in parallel and "fuse" nonaligned pixels. I have no idea if this is even close to feasible but if implemented well it should perform similar to down-sampling digital photosite values digitally
- Line skipping: discard half of the info (non HQ modes?)

 

[Shaun Gibbs]

Im currently waiting for my RF 70-200 to turn up.
Its gonna be great going by what you and others have said!

It is indeed super super sharp.

 

[Inspired]

1. Realistically I'd like to see the 30 minute maximum recording time gone.

2. Try to squeeze 4k60 into not having over heating issues like the 4k30 mode.

3. Fix all the bugs

4. I'm willing to take lesser powered cards if it would help with the overheating.

I believe these are realistic goals Canon can actually reach if they try.

 

[maduhbee]

At minimum the following should be added:

• 8K output over HDMI... this should be easy on the system as no compression needed and HDMI 2.0 supports 8K @30p. So no excuses not to enable it.
• 4K HQ @24p internal recording without recording time limits.
• Non-recording operations should not impact available recording time.
• Recovery time needs to be removed. Imposing a record limits is one thing, but requiring 2 hours plus to restore the camera to full functionality is frankly ridiculous. I believe these limits are artificial. And testing would seem to support this suspicion.

I Thought HDMI 2.0 (a/b) only supports up to 4K60 w/HDR? 18Gbps max, while 2.1 is the one with 8K delivery? (48Gbps)

 

[Otara]

Not having cards in the slots could indeed slow down the heat build up or it could just break the algo. Or both There's a report on fredmiranda that putting the R5 in a freezer makes it recover after completely after 25 minutes instead of 2 hours, so the notion of it being "a simple timer" doesn't seem to hold up either.

Thats very interesting info.

 

[PN5X5]

Worst rollout that I can remember..

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

for the users that want to shoot full frame in the higher quality modes, yes, canon at a minimum needs to fix the recovery times. That being said, if you’re on a shoot with a C-300 mark 2 or mark 3 as your A camera, and want use the R5 as a B camera, it does shoot oversampled 4K in 1.6 crop and doesn’t seem to have any record limits outside of the 30 minute per clip that canon has always done. given that it’s oversampled,, it’ll probably look better than the footage from the C300 which isn’t oversampled. If you do that, you’ll have roughly the same effective sensor size between the two and can use the same lenses.

For sure, this is probably the best way to work with the C300 and R5. I'm not sure why the 1.6x crop oversampled mode is always overlooked. It's very useful IMO

 

[Otara]

For sure, this is probably the best way to work with the C300 and R5. I'm not sure why the 1.6x crop oversampled mode is always overlooked. It's very useful IMO

Absolutely, its a bonus for me, with wildlife, and lets me use my 10-18mm EF-S for WA, very light.

 

[mppix]

I Thought HDMI 2.0 (a/b) only supports up to 4K60 w/HDR? 18Gbps max, while 2.1 is the one with 8K delivery? (48Gbps)

Me too; apparently there is an 8bit 8K30 mode..

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Worst rollout that I can remember..

I guess you were not around for the EOS R, or the 1Dx MkIII or the RP...

The Canon release work flow is as follows:

1. Camera is Highly anticipated - Much speculation, tons of rumors, lot of hype.
2. Camera Releases and sells well - But the specs "suck..." 1.8 crop, no dual card slots, they are all back ordered, the lens are to expensive, 20MP is not enough, you do not need 8k, it gets to hot, DSLR's are dead...
3. Talking heads on youtube and other places spend all their time talking about what the Camera is not. Things like "Worst rollout ever" are posted on forums, idiots threaten to sue Canon for telling them the truth.
4. More and more people get the Camera and actually f'n use it. Slowly the talking heads create videos like "The EOS R is better than you think" "The EOS R... I was wrong!!!" "Why Canon sued me for slander" ok that last one has not happened yet but I think we all know who I am talking about.

Canon simply cannot win, they are the target if the are conservative, they are the target if they are innovative. But hey they make great glass... But it is too expensive...

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Me too; apparently there is an 8bit 8K30 mode..

I think the new Atomos Neon https://www.dpreview.com/news/25065...ers-will-have-8k-60p-prores-raw-module-option with the Master Control Module will support 8K.

Will add a bit of cost for 8K recording though. I cannot seem to find a price for the Master Control Module

 

[Bert63]

Yeah! I was lucky that I got my R5 in the first batch so I've been enjoying using it!

From all of us kneecapped on the wait list for our cameras I would like to say...

POST IMAGES! DOIT! DOIT! STOP BEING A BOGART!

 

[Maru]

Spot on.

Canon is going to first try and crack it by paying anyone but the MAZE group to see if their hackers are better then MAZE's. While that is going on Canon is doing an audit of all the possible data involved to see if they can simply restore with off site back-ups.

The most critical things are:

1. How did they (MAZE) get access?
2. Are they still in the system.

It makes no sense to restore from backup if they can just get in again or are still in.

Ranked in fortune 500 and getting hit by hackers and being down for weeks is not a good sign for the company itself in front of consumers ... we understand that its bad but then again they should give something on their website with an ETA ..just saying go to Cananda and then saying only drivers..its bad for their image ...very bad

 

[Jonathan Thill]

Ranked in fortune 500 and getting hit by hackers and being down for weeks is not a good sign for the company itself in front of consumers ... we understand that its bad but then again they should give something on their website with an ETA ..just saying go to Canada and then saying only drivers..its bad for their image ...very bad

Yep, being down for 6 days is bad. Like Garmin I am sure Canon will recover.