DPReview: Canon EOS R5 and R6 overheating claims tested: cameras work as promised – but that’s not enough

[davidhfe]

There are no issues. I have the camera and use it quite well. I knew how to purchase a 3" CPU fan and voila. No problems. Top end video cameras have FANS.

I'd be very interested to see some controlled tests with that setup. Would you be up for doing a video? You'd get a boatload of views on YouTube overnight if the setup works. How quickly does that CPU fan return to "full spec" recording?

 

[Bert63]

No Canon was not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus. Everything reduces the available recording time.
Canon was not clear that cool down times could be anywhere from 2 hours to 6 hours. Please, I can’t understand why anyone that coughed up the $4200 (with tax) for this body would be ok with this highly unpredictable behavior?

I paid $3700 with no tax.

A 5D4 cost $3500 at launch. Factoring inflation, I paid less for my R5 that I did for my 5D4.

Of ‘modern’ cameras that shoot video I own a 70D, a 5D4, a EOS-R, and I have the R5 coming. Total, I’ve shot maybe a half an hour of video.

HIGHLY UNPREDICTABLE is hyperbole at best, drama at worst. I became familiar with the limitations of the EOS-R as a wildlife shooter and had my technique to work around them down in a couple of days. It’s not as fast as my 7D2 or 5D4 but it works fine and produces really nice images.

If you’re going to try to make the R5 do things it wasn’t designed to do or that would require it to defy the laws of nature then you’ll fail and not be a happy camper. If you pay attention to the limitations up front and learn to work around or through them, you’ll be fine.

It might take a little imagination or even a little learning or work, but it’s possible.

Or you can just decide based on your requirements that it just can’t do what you want. In that case I’d say to adjust your expectations, or use the parts that will meet your needs and use something else for the rest, or move on and find something that makes all your dreams come true.

 

[Bert63]

This is the point every canon fanboy is in denial about. Yes canon told us we'd only have 20 minutes of 8k, but they didnt tell us we we're on the clock from the second we flipped the on switch.

I‘m not in denial. I’m going to see how things work for me and go from there.

I‘m certainly not going to whine and cry and bitch and moan and regurgitate unsubstantiated BS from other forums as fact and expect to be taken seriously, or weep and gnash teeth for days on end about something I have no personal ‘lemme see how this works’ experience with.

 

[cornieleous]

Stop spreading around lies. The user who upvoted your post was the same exact user who posted this from Canon, 3 weeks before launch:

Canon R5 overheating issues and recording times

https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-serious-overheating-issues-in-both-4k-and-8k/ Where were these images taken from? it looks like they could be from the manual?

www.canonrumors.com

So how was Canon "not transparent that everything you do on the camera would reduce recording time, from switching it on, to playing back videos, to shooting stills or even flipping through menus" when it literally says in there that "IF THE CAMERA'S INTERNAL TEMPERATURE RISES DUE TO SHOOTING OR ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS, RECORDING TIME WILL BE REDUCED." and "EVEN AFTER A COLD START, TOTAL RECORDING TIME MAY BE SHORTER, BECAUSE THE CAMERA'S INTERNAL TEMPERATURE MAY RISE DUE TO FACTORS SUCH AS CAMERA SETTING OPERATIONS BEFORE RECORDING, OR MAINTAINING THE LIVE VIEW DISPLAY". Again, this was known weeks before launch. Canon didn't try to hide anything....they literally said that changing settings and having the display on could affect things.

"You are a canon fanboy and your logic will not be tolerated, bllargh!!!! "(I'm completely kidding). At this point I am learning I need to bow out of debating with people here- there is some kind of weird anger at a product they don't own, but feel should have met all their desires, that I cannot understand. I'm genuienly trying hard to see their point and just cannot. I saw the same published info from Canon made available to us all before I received the camera, and decided the camera was still going to be ok for my needs, so I left my pre-order active and received the camera late last week. I could still return it today if I was worried, but am not.

I can understand being disappointed a product wasn't what I hoped and have to find another solution for my needs, it has happened to me before with other products. I can definitely understand if someone actually bought something and it didn't work as promised that they may be pretty ticked. Yet acting angry and beating on the camera or brand or anyone who says they like either? What is that about? I don't have the frame of reference to get the outrage and harsh judgement at something that was disclosed and just is a fact of that product, a product no one here has to buy. Makes me really wonder where people are coming from, and if they are trying to be positive or constructive or something else.

Here I sit on my third day of testing this camera, and for all uses within the defined limits, it is pretty amazing- I keep putting it through trials and paces, including overheating it, worrying what I am missing with all these threads and negative press, since it still meets my needs handily and matches what I know is possible with physics of this much capability in a tiny package. The tiny size and EVF will take getting used to, but it is ridiculously good as a stills camera and even when overheated becomes a competent FF 4K30 and stills camera the second after it overheats. Last year, there were only a couple cameras that could do FF 4K60 at all, and they were all dedicated video cameras in larger bodies and prices. We are just barely getting the first generation of capable hybrids. Give it some time folks, you will have your dream camera from one of these brands.

Also, I use several brands of cameras for different uses (including Sony) and think even with the issues, the R5 is a major step up from my 5D4 and a great competitor in the market. Does that make me a Canon fanboy just for liking it, or just means that I have a different viewpoint about the camera?

 

[TomR]

I‘m not in denial. I’m going to see how things work for me and go from there.

I‘m certainly not going to whine and cry and bitch and moan and regurgitate unsubstantiated BS from other forums as fact and expect to be taken seriously, or weep and gnash teeth for days on end about something I have no personal ‘lemme see how this works’ experience with.

thats fair play, i'll probably rent the camera at some point and do the same

 

[cornieleous]

I love the Kirk stuff. Got their lightweight ball-head first, and then the L bracket for 5D4. Still not cheap, but as good or better as RRS for lots less. So far I can't find anyone with a L bracket available yet for R5/6.

 

[Th0msky]

Is there a dedicated mirrorless video camera like the R6 that doesn’t overheat regardless of which brand and within the same sort of price range? As a videographer I really would love to have the sony a7s III but just a lil on the expensive side for me.

 

[BakaBokeh]

There are no issues. I have the camera and use it quite well. I knew how to purchase a 3" CPU fan and voila. No problems. Top end video cameras have FANS.

That's awesome if it works for you. I also want to try similar tests when I get my R5.

I'm wondering if the overheated condition is the kiss of death on the camera, where once you hit critical mass then the camera has to deal with extended cool down and recovery periods. Will using a fan or proactively cooling the camera before overheating conditions start help avoid the unpredictability of the overheated condition? I'm curious to find out for myself.

You didn't address the other issues like UWA IBIS wobbles, or missing FHD120, so I assume these just aren't issues for your case.

 

[1D4]

"You are a canon fanboy and your logic will not be tolerated, bllargh!!!! "(I'm completely kidding). At this point I am learning I need to bow out of debating with people here- there is some kind of weird anger at a product they don't own, but feel should have met all their desires, that I cannot understand. I'm genuienly trying hard to see their point and just cannot. I saw the same published info from Canon made available to us all before I received the camera, and decided the camera was still going to be ok for my needs, so I left my pre-order active and received the camera late last week. I could still return it today if I was worried, but am not.

I can understand being disappointed a product wasn't what I hoped and have to find another solution for my needs, it has happened to me before with other products. I can definitely understand if someone actually bought something and it didn't work as promised that they may be pretty ticked. Yet acting angry and beating on the camera or brand or anyone who says they like either? What is that about? I don't have the frame of reference to get the outrage and harsh judgement at something that was disclosed and just is a fact of that product, a product no one here has to buy. Makes me really wonder where people are coming from, and if they are trying to be positive or constructive or something else.

Here I sit on my third day of testing this camera, and for all uses within the defined limits, it is pretty amazing- I keep putting it through trials and paces, including overheating it, worrying what I am missing with all these threads and negative press, since it still meets my needs handily and matches what I know is possible with physics of this much capability in a tiny package. The tiny size and EVF will take getting used to, but it is ridiculously good as a stills camera and even when overheated becomes a competent FF 4K30 and stills camera the second after it overheats. Last year, there were only a couple cameras that could do FF 4K60 at all, and they were all dedicated video cameras in larger bodies and prices. We are just barely getting the first generation of capable hybrids. Give it some time folks, you will have your dream camera from one of these brands.

Also, I use several brands of cameras for different uses (including Sony) and think even with the issues, the R5 is a major step up from my 5D4 and a great competitor in the market. Does that make me a Canon fanboy just for liking it, or just means that I have a different viewpoint about the camera?

I agree...most of these people don't even have the R5 in hand or don't have it on pre-order, either. That doesn't discount their opinions, but if they bought it and they are that mad about it then, then return the camera if you find it to be completely unusable. If they didn't buy it, then shouldn't they feel relieved hearing about all these minute details or reading Canon's explanations of the limitations well before launch? It's not like Canon sent all the review copies into the Siberian winter, didn't document the limitations, then was like "sorry suckers!". And while on that topic, I should mention that a videographer on YouTube mentioned he shot HQ 4K with no overheating, in Australia (where it's obviously Winter).

I would love to stop replying, too, but I find it hard letting go when people are going to make completely false statements that can easily be proven untrue.

 

[BakaBokeh]

Is there a dedicated mirrorless video camera like the R6 that doesn’t overheat regardless of which brand and within the same sort of price range? As a videographer I really would love to have the sony a7s III but just a lil on the expensive side for me.

Hmmm. Guess we'd need a little more information on what specs are important to you. You're going to run into tradeoffs for all of them.

• Sony A7SIII - Near perfect for video but bad IBIS, Animal AF doesn't work with Video, Expensive
• Canon R6 - Excellent IBIS & AF, Thermal Limitations, UWA IBIS Wobbles
• Panasonic S1 - 4K60 but with S35 crop. Will need paid upgrades to use better codecs. Poor AF. Not the best Colors SOC, IBIS not as good as M4/3 bodies, Excellent current street pricing.
• Panasonic GH5 - Like the S1 but 4K60 on M4/3 sensor. More Affordable. Excellent IBIS
• Panasonic S1H - A bigger polished more expensive S1
• Fujifilm XT4 - Nice Colors, Good Dynamic Range, APS-C Crop, Thermal Limitations, Poor AF, UWA IBIS Wobbles

 

[Respinder]

I am very conflicted with all of this.
As I noted in another thread, there is a major negative perception associated with this camera. Whether or not you can work around the limitations of the camera remains a question, but the growing perception is that this camera has serious flaws.

For me, it is more of a practical question - what did Canon want to achieve with the R5?
I would assume that they wanted to aim strategically at Sony and produce a compelling product that would retain their existing customer base, while growing that customer base at the expense of Sony and other competitors.

But does the R5 under its current perception do this? In my view, no it does not. Enough people have described the video functionalities as being "unusable" to the point that the camera will be mostly perceived in this manner - I simply do not understand how Canon hopes to expand their customer base with this product.

Another question I keep thinking about is whether Canon is simply technically unable to achieve better specifications and usability given their engineering teams and possible internal constraints. While it has been assumed that Canon has intentionally crippled their video in the past by offering only cropped modes, what if the real problem was always overheating, and Canon simply couldn't combat this? From an engineering perspective, I wouldn't expect Canon to be able to compete with Sony on things like heat dissipation systems - Sony simply has far more experience in this regard, and I'm sure there is a lot of cross-sharing of knowledge between their various R&D groups (e.g. they are building one of the most advanced cooling systems now for the PS5)

Where Canon does offer more compelling capabilities versus Sony is in their optics - their lenses. Furthermore, I believe that the larger diameter of the RF mount will allow Canon to build faster (hopefully a 50mm f1.0 in the near future??) and more advanced lenses like the 28-70 f2 whereas the smaller diameter of the E mount will further limit what Sony is able to accomplish. BUT - the gap between Sony and Canon continues to shrink, and I really do wonder how Canon will remain competitive in the future if they cannot improve the perception of their products.

Given the issues at hand, and what Canon wanted to achieve, I would say that a firmware update of some sort is absolutely necessary in order to get this product to a more usable state. Even for a non-professional like myself, taking photos on a given day and then not being able to use the video functionality due to overheating restrictions would be frustrating. Using the 4K line-skipping mode is simply not an option - for those who purchased an R5, only the best PQ will do, and that will mean either 4K HQ or 8K footage. If Canon had utilized pixel binning instead of line-skipping, perhaps the lower end 4K mode could have been a better option.

For me personally, I've decided to hold off on any purchase right now. Going all into the R5 would be very costly for me - with the body, adapter, batteries, CF express cards and a new RF lens, I'd be looking at $8-10K CAD easily. At that cost, I want something that is truly the best out there, with no compromises in performance. Perhaps that could be the Canon R1? But if Canon is smart, and they want to drastically improve their perception, they need to come up with a solution here. A big driver of the R5 was to improve that perception - that the cripple hammer was finally going away and Canon was finally listening to their customer base - well if that's the case, then they really need to listen up here! Remember that the Sony a7 is right around the corner - Canon needs to respond big time, and it shouldn't be with another body.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

I still don't understand why anyone would be comparing an R5 with an A7Siii.. two very different cameras. If Video was my main gig I would be looking at a C200b for around the same money.

I bought an R5 for 95% stills with the intention of taking very short, but very high quality video. For that, it's perfect.

 

[Etienne]

For video, the A7S3 looks amazing and by far the better purchase for that need, but its stills are then compromised (to me) as much or more as the R5 video. I like the nuances of the A7S3 for video not just because it performs, but for the nice details like full size HDMI, hot shoe audio wire path, vertically hinged port covers, and ridiculous low light ability. If I was needing 4K60, I think I'd be looking hard at it as all around it would be more pleasurable for video. I just don't do enough video to need the FF 4K60fps and have a dedicated Sony NXCAM that does wonderful 4K30 and has built in ND and lots of nice video centric stuff. For footage quality alone, the R5 might make my NXCAM redundant. Before the R5 and A7S3, there really was no hybrid FF MILC that could even try to do 4K60 and up was there?

To me the R5 was always going to be a 5D5 from all the press around it. A great stills camera with ho-hum video that will be amazing for casual users and not good enough for many forms of pro work on the video side. You aren't wrong that pros use these size cameras for a reason, but until recently we only had 4K30 on FF, and Canon went the stills bias on their hybrid balancing while Sony went the video way.

I have read some interesting stuff that I cannot verify, that the 5D2 was used for Iron Man 2 in some scenes, and a full episode of House, and some other full feature film (cannot remember which, some war movie) and had overheating issues during some shoots, so they had multiple bodies. Not saying that is a reasonable solution for event photographers, just that we have seen this before in Sony and other bodies: putting the latest horsepower into tiny bodies will just always be a thermal problem and I would almost rather they hold this stuff back to avoid this controversy.

The final episode of one season of House was entirely shot on the 5D2 , and many of these "photography" cameras have been used on big budget films

 

[koch1948]

I am very conflicted with all of this.
As I noted in another thread, there is a major negative perception associated with this camera. Whether or not you can work around the limitations of the camera remains a question, but the growing perception is that this camera has serious flaws.

For me, it is more of a practical question - what did Canon want to achieve with the R5?
I would assume that they wanted to aim strategically at Sony and produce a compelling product that would retain their existing customer base, while growing that customer base at the expense of Sony and other competitors.

But does the R5 under its current perception do this? In my view, no it does not. Enough people have described the video functionalities as being "unusable" to the point that the camera will be mostly perceived in this manner - I simply do not understand how Canon hopes to expand their customer base with this product.

Another question I keep thinking about is whether Canon is simply technically unable to achieve better specifications and usability given their engineering teams and possible internal constraints. While it has been assumed that Canon has intentionally crippled their video in the past by offering only cropped modes, what if the real problem was always overheating, and Canon simply couldn't combat this? From an engineering perspective, I wouldn't expect Canon to be able to compete with Sony on things like heat dissipation systems - Sony simply has far more experience in this regard, and I'm sure there is a lot of cross-sharing of knowledge between their various R&D groups (e.g. they are building one of the most advanced cooling systems now for the PS5)

Where Canon does offer more compelling capabilities versus Sony is in their optics - their lenses. Furthermore, I believe that the larger diameter of the RF mount will allow Canon to build faster (hopefully a 50mm f1.0 in the near future??) and more advanced lenses like the 28-70 f2 whereas the smaller diameter of the E mount will further limit what Sony is able to accomplish. BUT - the gap between Sony and Canon continues to shrink, and I really do wonder how Canon will remain competitive in the future if they cannot improve the perception of their products.

Given the issues at hand, and what Canon wanted to achieve, I would say that a firmware update of some sort is absolutely necessary in order to get this product to a more usable state. Even for a non-professional like myself, taking photos on a given day and then not being able to use the video functionality due to overheating restrictions would be frustrating. Using the 4K line-skipping mode is simply not an option - for those who purchased an R5, only the best PQ will do, and that will mean either 4K HQ or 8K footage. If Canon had utilized pixel binning instead of line-skipping, perhaps the lower end 4K mode could have been a better option.

For me personally, I've decided to hold off on any purchase right now. Going all into the R5 would be very costly for me - with the body, adapter, batteries, CF express cards and a new RF lens, I'd be looking at $8-10K CAD easily. At that cost, I want something that is truly the best out there, with no compromises in performance. Perhaps that could be the Canon R1? But if Canon is smart, and they want to drastically improve their perception, they need to come up with a solution here. A big driver of the R5 was to improve that perception - that the cripple hammer was finally going away and Canon was finally listening to their customer base - well if that's the case, then they really need to listen up here! Remember that the Sony a7 is right around the corner - Canon needs to respond big time, and it shouldn't be with another body.

You are 100% correct about the flagship EOS R1. That future camera body might be your solution.

 

[Bert63]

thats fair play, i'll probably rent the camera at some point and do the same

I bought it. It’s cheaper..

 

[Etienne]

Um yeah. The 12 MP "hybrid" camera that is 95% video focused and 5% stills focused wins for long-duration video. Is anyone surprised by this?

All this bantering back and forth comes down to one thing. When someone says a small, mirrorless camera is a hybrid camera do you expect it to be stills focused? Or video focused? What split? 50/50? 80/20? 20/80? You can't design a camera that does it all and that will likely always be true. When technology improves and the canon R5 Mark III can do 75MP stills and unlimited 8K video there will be some other feature that it can't do as well as a dedicated video camera (or dedicated stills camera).

When designing the R5 canon went with the 80/20 split. If that upsets you or doesn't meet your needs and you wanted a 5/95 split then obviously the camera is not for you. But they didn't dupe the camera world, they didn't forget (LOL) to add a heat sink, and they aren't going to recall and completely redesign the camera to match YOUR needs. The camera clearly meets a large segment of the market's needs as it is sold out everywhere.

Even the humble Sony A7 III looks like a better hybrid option than either the R5 or R6 at this point.
And if you want a two body system, the A7sIII and A7r IV blow the Canon duo out of the water I'm afraid.
Full disclosure: I am a long time Canon fan and was super excited to see the new R5 R6, but short of a miracle, they are no use to me.
The only Canon cameras that I hope might be appealing are a high end M series, and only because I want to use my lovely lenses: 11-22 IS, the 22 f/2, and the 32 f/1.4 ... or a possible RF mount C100 mk III (or whatever they decide to call it)

 

[Etienne]

Then all of the folks who have beat the Canon into the ground should quickly rush over and buy the Sony and join the chorus of “Sony is perfect” despite all of the shortcomings the new handy-cam comes with.

Nothing is perfect, except in the minds of fanbois of all flavors. Thanks for clarifying where you stand, fanboi

 

[Bert63]

I still don't understand why anyone would be comparing an R5 with an A7Siii.. two very different cameras. If Video was my main gig I would be looking at a C200b for around the same money.

I bought an R5 for 95% stills with the intention of taking very short, but very high quality video. For that, it's perfect.

Yes.

I just read a very interesting article about the success of capturing 35MP images from the 8K video.

The examples were very impressive.

 

[Etienne]

The a7s III overheats FASTER in 4k60 than the EOS R. Let that sink in. Also, if the Sony overheats, you cant use it. If the canon overheats you can switch IMMEDIATLY to a "non overheating mode" like the 4k30 mode, which is still super great btw

I dont understand why its such a topic on the R5 while there is no camera in that form factor that can beat it :-D

Philip Bloom has already done a torture test for overheating on the A7s III, and it is the best performer by a mile available today.
You've mistaken the two cameras.
The Sony when it does overheat can be reused in minutes, the Canon takes hours.

 

[Bert63]

Nothing is perfect, except in the minds of fanbois of all flavors. Thanks for clarifying where you stand, fanboi

I was quoting Gerald Man-bun with his proclamation of the A7SIII‘s “perfection” (his words, not mine) and my position regarding this camera is clear and doesn’t even approach fanboy. I’m in the try and see category. But thanks for jumping to conclusions without knowing your target. Your name calling is very telling...