First Round of EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]

[Krob78]

New Ergonomic Design

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic.

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

-PW

++1

 

[Lee Jay]

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

There are a couple factors here. Hand-holding ability suffers when pixel density is too high,

No, it doesn't. The extra pixels are capable of showing the blur that was already there in more detail. Reducing the pixel count just hides that blur inside the blur due to poor sampling.

On top of that is encountering diffraction earlier on.

That's also baloney, and for the exact same reason.

There are several drawbacks to cramming more pixels on small sensors. You can take as many shortcuts as you like, but eventually physics will emerge victorious, thus the booming full frame market.....

The only drawbacks to more pixels are that better manufacturing is needed, faster processing pipelines have to be included, more storage is consumed by the final files, and more processing power is needed to post process the final images. There are no image quality disadvantages except in certain extremely way out there edge cases no one ever mentions anyway.

 

[willis]

New design and battery.. WHY CANON, WHY?! But other specs looks nice, but I'll pass if I'm not getting good deal out of that one.

 

[Lee Jay]

New Ergonomic Design

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic.

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

-PW

++1

I think the ergonomics of the 1D series are horrible. I have small hands and the bodies are just too thick for me (literally, with my hand on the grip in the proper place, my index finger doesn't reach the shutter release). Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

I never remove the grip the my 7D. The only time I took it off was when I loaned the camera to someone who didn't use a grip. Thus, for me, having the grip built-in is much better, for many reasons (which I know we've already discussed ).

 

[x-vision]

from the B&H link:
"the DIGIC 5+ processor also delivers overall speed and power to the 6D and utilizes dual 4-channel A/D converter"

Looks like the same 8-channel setup to me. At the minimum, I'm betting on dual DIGIC 5 (non '+').

According to Canon CPN Europe, it's a four-channel readout. See the 'Key technologies' section here:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/cameras/eos_6d.do

But you might be right, after all, that both the 6D and 5DIII have an 8-channel readout.

In any case, if you've seen the size of the Digic 5+, you know that Canon is not going to use two of these in a non-1DX body.

 

[Krob78]

New Ergonomic Design

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic.

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

-PW

++1

I think the ergonomics of the 1D series are horrible. I have small hands and the bodies are just too thick for me (literally, with my hand on the grip in the proper place, my index finger doesn't reach the shutter release). Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

I can certainly understand your dilema. I have pretty good sized hands. When I first bought the 60D, the small size was one of the first things that turned me off and I found very uncomfortable. When I bought my 7D, I was relieved and pretty happy about the good overall feeling of soliditity and balance I had with the camera.

After shooting a 1d series, I purchased the grip for my 7D. I was originally hesitant, due to what I thought was a high cost for the OEM, but purchased it anyway after holding and shooting a 1 series. In the last 3 years since I've had the grip, I've only ever removed it three times. Twice for maintenance cleaning and once to let my daughter try shooting with it, it was to large for her with the grip and her small hands...

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for. I have no problem purchasing a new one for the MK II if it needs a different one. Seems likely if they are changing the batteries...

 

[Lee Jay]

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable. I do see why people would want a better grip than the ones they build for the non-1-series now. That's why I advocate for the better ungripped bodies (5D, 7D, possibly xxD, plus the 1-series) to get a 1V-style grip, and leave the bottom-mounted grip for the Rebels. That way everyone can get what they want. You could have an ungripped 1-series, or a solidly-gripped 7D/5D etc. neither of which is available right now.

 

[Krob78]

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable. I do see why people would want a better grip than the ones they build for the non-1-series now. That's why I advocate for the better ungripped bodies (5D, 7D, possibly xxD, plus the 1-series) to get a 1V-style grip, and leave the bottom-mounted grip for the Rebels. That way everyone can get what they want. You could have an ungripped 1-series, or a solidly-gripped 7D/5D etc. neither of which is available right now.

Lee that sounds good to me too! I think I'd like one built in, as I've just never really had the occassion to shoot without it, the better ungripped body with the 1v style grip sounds like a great idea, definitely a step up from what we have now for the 5d/7d bodies. Other than the 1-series, I don't see them ever doing built in grips on any of the other line up...

 

[Bob Howland]

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

There are a couple factors here. Hand-holding ability suffers when pixel density is too high,

No, it doesn't. The extra pixels are capable of showing the blur that was already there in more detail. Reducing the pixel count just hides that blur inside the blur due to poor sampling.

On top of that is encountering diffraction earlier on.

That's also baloney, and for the exact same reason.

There are several drawbacks to cramming more pixels on small sensors. You can take as many shortcuts as you like, but eventually physics will emerge victorious, thus the booming full frame market.....

The only drawbacks to more pixels are that better manufacturing is needed, faster processing pipelines have to be included, more storage is consumed by the final files, and more processing power is needed to post process the final images. There are no image quality disadvantages except in certain extremely way out there edge cases no one ever mentions anyway.

If all that is true, why does the 1Dx have only 18MP and the Nikon D4 only 16MP?

 

[Pieces Of E]

Why the hype? We're all enjoying all the great features and improvments that the highly publicized 7D firmware upgrades did for us, right? Who needs a new 7D?

 

[nicku]

Why the hype? We're all enjoying all the great features and improvments that the highly publicized 7D firmware upgrades did for us, right? Who needs a new 7D?

Many of us... because the ISO performance at base ISO, worse than competition. 7D need a replacement to compete on the market

 

[Pieces Of E]

Does anyone think the ISO performance in the 7D could have been improved in a firmware update?

 

[eddiemrg]

Does anyone think the ISO performance in the 7D could have been improved in a firmware update?

With fw 2.0 you mean?

 

[Krob78]

Does anyone think the ISO performance in the 7D could have been improved in a firmware update?

Do you mean "Could have been improved" like in the past tense, did they do it and not tell us? or "Could have been improved", why the heck didn't they do it?

If you meant the first way, I'd say definitely not. Not in mine anyway! If the second meaning, I say if they could have, they should have! Sadly, I don't know enough about that part of the technology to know everything they can or can't do in a firmware upgrade... There are plenty of experts here that do know though! Good question!

 

[Pieces Of E]

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO). Now with the rumour of a 7D MK2 on the horizon, everyone is complaining about the poor ISO noise of the 7D. So I guess they didn't improve it, even though they could have, right?

 

[Krob78]

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO). Now with the rumour of a 7D MK2 on the horizon, everyone is complaining about the poor ISO noise of the 7D. So I guess they didn't improve it, even though they could have, right?

Not me, I just waited until 2.03 came out and only loaded the firmware the one time... Too many people seemed to be having issues with 2.0, so I had a bit of trepidation with regard to just jumping on the bandwagon...

 

[jrista]

HMMM...New ergonomic design? Why? The 7D's, and 5D III which borrowed from it, ergonomics are pretty damn stellar...I really hope Canon doesn't screw up one of the best things they have going for them. I stick with Canon for two primary reasons: Ergonomics and Lens quality. I generally could care less about the rest of the speculation at this point...but ergonomics...Canon just better not screw that one up.

 

[Lee Jay]

If all that is true, why does the 1Dx have only 18MP and the Nikon D4 only 16MP?

Speed.

 

[Lee Jay]

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO).

I don't see how firmware would improve high-ISO noise, which is mostly dependent on the quantum efficiency of the sensor and the transmittance of the Bayer dyes. You might be able to do some calibration tricks and dark-frame subtraction to help with fixed pattern noise, but there's just not much else you could do, other than applying noise reduction to the raw images which we generally don't like.