Gerald Undone completes exhaustive record time testing on the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

NorskHest

EOS 90D
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Jan 11, 2018
149
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Minnesota - US
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People are saying it is normal to shoot several thousand images in a couple hours, but what is the comparison? A giant DSLR with smaller MP sensor that will heat less with each burst and cool more easily? Even in short bursts of dozens to hundreds of images, a camera is running full-out for a few minutes writing the buffers and to two cards- this is near max processing just like HQ video, especially with tracking and IBIS running. This will heat the camera each burst, and if the body is small and compact, heat dissipation to the outside will not be as effective as a large body. Over time, and with the sun, the camera is going to get really hot inside. The R5 is a tiny MILC body. The comparisons to a 1DX3 is senseless. The 1DX series is huge compared to this camera. People are calling this heat issue a problem because they expect a dedicated video camera or dedicated sports camera. If I start to hear reports or have my own experience with more normal forms of stills shooting, I will become concerned, but so far all reports of 'problems' come from people pushing the camera hard as a specialty sports or video camera when it is a hybrid.

The major mistake I think Canon made is giving this camera capabilities of their higher end video cameras and sports cameras in a tiny body that cannot do those duties indefinitely in all environments. They were not clear enough about this being a 5D5 stills camera replacement in a mirrorless body. No one expects the 5D4 to do anything but basic video and pretty good stills reliably, and the same should be true of what is essentially a mirrorless 5D5. Maybe if they didn't choose such a tiny body, the thermal situation would be better, but then vloggers and wedding photographers would be crying about it.

Without being spoon fed the obvious, many customers are just not that educated about technology and have no idea what to expect or how to pick a camera properly- this is why they turn to all the dumb youtube reviewers, most of whom unfortunately make their living on being talking heads who hype everything.

The real failing of the R5 release is not one of engineering, but of marketing. It may have been smarter of Canon to not offer the high fps or 4kHQ or 8k, but if they did, you know how loud people would be crying about 'the cripple hammer'. I would hate to work in consumer electronics right now. People who don't have a clue how their gadgets work are just the most demanding, pissy, egotistical lot. The more uninformed they are, the louder they seem to be, parroting the opinions of anyone who they think sounds informed. They always want more for less, and just once I wish any of them had the brains to be on the engineering side and see just how hard it is, just how amazing the R5 actually is in this tiny body.

I'll be right here complaining with everyone if this camera fails me for reasonable use (excellent stills in all environments plus light duty high quality video). I'll compare it to the 5D4, the market segment it belongs. So far in my reasonable torture test in direct sunlight the camera meets and exceeds what Canon said it could do, and meets my needs. People trying to use it as all time HQ video camera, cinema camera or sports camera, and those deliberately just 'leaning on the shutter' etc. are perhaps not considering the purpose it was designed to and are expecting hybrid to perform as a specialist. Just silly.

If firmware improvement or a manufacturing fix can make things better, great. Otherwise I expect that if the camera performs to reasonable limits it will serve many of us well. Time will tell.
So when I go shoot with my 5d in the same conditions as I do with the R5 I used or my 1d and shoot a few thousand out in the heat and lean on it because that’s part of the way it goes with high speed Motorsport photography I must be doing it wrong and it must not be the camera that shoots 12 FPS and pretty much has no buffer and is touted as being your one stop shop. People shoot 5ds and a7s at the events I also work at. You all need to take a step back and check your tribalism. Your god failed you life will go on .
 
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stevensteven

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 24, 2020
81
57
I'm in a very similar boat to you. My initial thought was that I could buy the R5 and sell my A7S2/A7III/Sony lenses and be back to all Canon. I shot Canon video until 2015 and I couldn't ignore how much better Sony video was and moved over. I preordered the R5 but ended up cancelling it because the A7S3 just made more sense for me since I shoot like 90% video. But I love shooting Canon stills, I just never liked shooting photos on Sony mirrorless for some reason. Also love my Canon glass so it looks like I'm going to continue using both systems for the forseeable future.

I feel exactly the same about taking photos on Sony. The A7RIV is a brilliant piece of art, I have nothing wrong to say about this camera (except maybe the lack of option to switch to smaller file sizes)...
But there's something about it that I never enjoyed, and that always sent me back to my Leica M10P for photos, which on the specs sheet is inferior in every single way. At first I thought it might be my lenses, but my lenses were perfectly fine on video.
Then I started comparing extensively the raw files with my 1dxmkii, and they were SO SO SO similar I couldn't have said which one is which in a blind test.

And then I realised what the issue was for me: the jpeg preview that popped up on the screen after reviewing the photos was always ugly to my eyes. On the canon or the Leica, the photos I see on the screen are always so pleasing to watch. You might ask, who cares since the raw files are almost identical?

Well, that's the point I want to make. I CARE. Because I care about the experience. I don't want to simply shot with a computer in my hands that does all the work. I want to shoot with something I enjoy shooting with.... and sometimes, cameras with much more limitations can make you way happier about your work, as long as they have more "soul".
Not sure if that makes sense to you, but that's exactly how I feel with my Leica M10P. No autofocus, obsolete sensor, no IBIS, etc... but god it has so much soul. And because I love shooting with it, I love all my photos that come out of it....
 

stevensteven

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 24, 2020
81
57
I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?

I read somewhere that only 3 brands are compatible with 120 4K and 8K raw for now. Sandisk, Sony tough, and a third one I forgot. I was going to buy an angel bird that's better priced at my go to shop, but the salesperson said it wasn't supported...
 

NorskHest

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jan 11, 2018
149
181
Minnesota - US
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Another quick clarification... did both bodies overheat, or just yours? Also, did you get the battery overheat warning (flame) or the thermal overheat warning? If battery, were you using the new battery or one from your 90D?
It was my friends camera, we used the new lp batts. I had just got done shooting a burst and looked at the photos that were captured and the red thermometer was flashing and I proceeded to shoot more then the camera stopped. It took somewhere between 10-15 min to start working again. After this tho I quit using it
 
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TheSalvatore

Canon R5
Jun 18, 2020
36
32
I tried using the same card (Wise) in the shop to test their R5 8K raw and got no issue.
I have issue using my both R5 shooting 8K Raw and 4K 120FPS with Clog. 4K120fps without Clog is fine... This is really weird...
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,898
1,046
UK
www.flickr.com
Read what poster stevensteven said his dilema is. People with money and can invest in expensive FF camera/glass can make a choice to go with the ecosystem they feel best fit their needs.

Absolutely. Everyone should buy what best suits their needs and budget. But then what you go on to say suggests you think everyone should choose the camera(s) you think are best. Which is it?

With the release of the A7siii and soon A7iv or current A7riv. Soon with flip screen and better menu.

The A7S3 is not a direct competitor of the R5, and only partially of the R6. You're comparing apples with oranges. "Flip screen and better menu" - wow. Is that it? Clearly they improved in the previous version but honestly, talk about incremental. The R5 is light years ahead of the original R.

What reason for a person with no EF or RF glasses to go with Canon? Or stay with Canon, when they don't have any RF glass yet?

Once again you're ignoring your own advice above. If I were starting out, with the aims and desires I have (wildlife shooting, macro, flower and insect portraits, low light interior shots, etc), why would I choose the new Sony? 12MP isn't enough for me, and the new Canon IBIS and AF are said to be better (we don't know for sure until it's all rigorously tested). The A7R3 is better (on paper) in a few key areas that appeal to vidographers. Newsflash: the R5 and R6 are hybrid cameras aimed at photographers.

Many people are cancelling their R5/R6 pre-order (on Youtube) because the A7siii offer better video specs. And when they do migrate to the Sony system, the soon a7iv (hybrid) and current a7riv (photo) will do similar job of the R5 and 5Div.
The GAS bois are willing to fork out $1000 more to get the A7siii over the R6, due to the better video specs, and they'll keep that camera and ecosystem. Canon/Pana/BMP4k/6k won't get them back. Now you might think they are a minority and most pro aren't on social media, but the market is shrinking, and these are the people willing to spend big on hobbies and wannabe filmmakers start up package.

Many? How many? You have sales/preorder figures? No, once again you're taking a few anecdotes and spinning them into a narrative. We have no idea how many bodies were preordered, how many preorders were cancelled, nor how either of those figures compares to what Canon was expecting or previous releases. Stop speaking for everyone (which once again goes against your "everyone should buy what best fits their needs" comment above).
 

BeenThere

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2012
1,243
670
Eastern Shore
So when I go shoot with my 5d in the same conditions as I do with the R5 I used or my 1d and shoot a few thousand out in the heat and lean on it because that’s part of the way it goes with high speed Motorsport photography I must be doing it wrong and it must not be the camera that shoots 12 FPS and pretty much has no buffer and is touted as being your one stop shop. People shoot 5ds and a7s at the events I also work at. You all need to take a step back and check your tribalism. Your god failed you life will go on .
If you shoot in a niche where camera A does not perform, and a camera B does, then by all means, use camera B. Is there any camera that works in all scenarios? I look at all features before deciding for myself. I won’t be driving a mustang on a formula 1 track. Many choices are available.
 
I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?
Check out my reply to the other gear thread. 8k raw needs cards capable of 325MBps. If you card doesn’t tell you the sustained rate then it is likely to be telling you the max or burst rate. Canon has a list of compatible cards. 120fps is 225 to 235MBps.
 

mpeeps

Lovin' life on the Central Coast
CR Pro
Dec 5, 2013
97
80
California
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Well said. They will never stop though. People are caught up in emotion and hype. The average person seems incapable of their own nuanced and logical thought process, which is why they give so much time to paid talking heads on youtube. I'm guessing this bashing and trying to change the R5 probably gives them a place to exert force and control in an out of control world these days.

It is pretty clear that the camera performs very well for what it was designed for. I've done my own overheat test and exceeded the record times Canon specified in direct sun and hot ambient air. It will more than cover my needs, and its design point: stills with limited very high quality video, and competent 4k30 and 1080 that you can use to your hearts desire.

I notice that most of the people with the largest issues don't seem to have equipment that can do this today, and their opinions are coming from 100% others reports, not experience. They hate what the cutting edge of hybrids is capable of and blame Canon that their innovation is not enough. They won't just go buy the Sony dedicated video camera either, even though somehow that camera (basically useless for stills) overheats in not much more time and lacks the resolution of the Canon.

Hybrid tools always compromise, which is why there are so many great purpose built tools on the market. We are living at a time when there is unbelievable tool sets for creativity- so many great offerings from so many brands. For anyone who is unhappy with these amazing cameras, I don't think it is the cameras that are broken... maybe it is time to look at who is behind the camera. Find a tool that will work for you and move on.

EDIT: the reports of thermal shutdown after taking fast bursts over and over may mean it is not as good at coolng as a 1DX3, meant for sports and in a giant body, but it also has a high MP sensor and must read out more data per shot. If you just lean on the shutter and go full rate, that buffer is going to run for a long, long time, which is the same as running high frame rate video, especially dual card writing. So no, I am not surprised. Does that make the camera unreliable? Not to me for my uses, I would never shoot thousands of shots in just a couple hours in high rate bursts. It is fair to say it might be unreliable as a dedicated sports camera, just like it is not a dedicated video camera. I think the real problem here is, Canon gave this too much power from the video and sports capable cameras, and now everyone thinks it should do all features as perfectly as purpose built tools for those jobs.

I'd love to see Canon improve things if they can for the R5/6, but I maintain that as the mirrorless 5DV with fast bursts and video supported but not dedicated, this is a great camera for many. I also appreciate all the normal customer reports and non hyped reviews, good or bad experiences, so we can all get the info we need to decide if the camera is for our needs. (Well, I already own it, but for everyone else sake)
Yes, well said. This is the best post on this site. I'm not a pro, but love stills photography and love reading what pros have to say about all things Canon and photography. I have preordered the R5 and will be thrilled to carry on with what I have accomplished and learned so far with the 7D, 6D, 5DS-R, and R.
 
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TheSalvatore

Canon R5
Jun 18, 2020
36
32
Check out my reply to the other gear thread. 8k raw needs cards capable of 325MBps. If you card doesn’t tell you the sustained rate then it is likely to be telling you the max or burst rate. Canon has a list of compatible cards. 120fps is 225 to 235MBps.

The weird thing is that I tried the same card in the shop with their display set (R5), it works fine on 8k Raw though...As for 4K120fps I didnt try on their R5. It's even weirder when I turned off Clog, I dont have any issue. But once I turned it back on, the problem came back.
 

TheSalvatore

Canon R5
Jun 18, 2020
36
32
Oh.. yes strange if one worked ok. See if you can contact the manufacturer for sustained write speeds which may confirm a faulty card
I have 2 wise cards and both giving me the same problem... And tried on both my R5 same issue too :/ Sigh
 

adigoks

EOS 750D
Jul 12, 2020
64
75
If all current available recording modes would then record unlimited? Everybody! It would be the best video camera under 10.000$ I guess.
that would not be good for company tho. it literally kill all their under 10000$ cinema camera :ROFLMAO:
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not claim writing short bursts into the buffer is an issue. Nor did I say that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours is abnormal. You're making assumptions that I myself am not willing to make.
What are you on about? All I am saying is that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours has never been an issue. You can do that even with 5DsR. It doesn‘t require 12FPS or 1200mbit/s write to card speed.
it is a reasonable expectation for a pro level body to keep up with such a task without overheating.
 
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davidhfe

EOS RP
CR Pro
Sep 9, 2015
307
459
For all those reasons I don't think a die shrink is in the immediate future or a solution. I would love to see the a Lens Rentals tear down though. Is there any kind of heat sink on the DIGIC X? Is there room for one to pipe heat to the body? People complaining that the camera is overheated yet the body feels cool indicates a big thermal management issue. Hopefully one they can solve.

Yeah, this die shrink talk is comical. We have no idea what node Digic X is. I’m not sure if we even know if Canon fabs it themselves. Could be on TSMCs 7nm for all we know!

Anyways, I’d caution some serious expectation setting for folks who aren’t happy with the current state of the camera. Again, remember the 5D4 firmware update lots of us got super excited for?
 

Bdbtoys

R5
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2020
421
304
I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?

I was curious about the brand so I did a quick check on their site. Note the 1550mbs is max, not sustained. All you need to do is dip below sustained to overflow the buffer and then you get an error. I couldn't find anything about the sustained speed, but did find this which leads me to believe the 1550 overstated. There are a couple of different ways to read into that note, but guessing it's a lot like the SanDisk 512GB cards being faster than the 64/128/256 counterparts.

Per their documentation at http://www.wise-advanced.com.tw/sup/pdf/Compatibility Guide-20200706.pdf

1596386731947.png

1596386755662.png


Note been seeing this on a lot of brands... where looking at just the max write is misleading. You have to dig what the minimum is.
 
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Dec 6, 2018
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For real?

This is the PR disaster I mentioned in the other thread

What a bunch of vague ... lol !!

PR disaster? Anonymous comments, lacking lots of relevant information. Could be the battery grip loose or other, for as vague as the comment was.

Meanwhile, Youtube is racking up a good number of real-face photographers the past couple days, reporting actual use with more details and information. Hours to full day shooting, and decent battery life too. I prefer the real people examples where they can be seen speaking, or at least profiles tracing to real names with websites and contact info.