New EF-S Lenses on the Horizon? [CR2]

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ahsanford said:
Eclectik said:
Why not a constant F2 aperture ? It should make sense for APS-C sensors: smaller image circle, worse behavior with high isos, equivalent bokeh?. I never understood why the pancake EF-S 24mm is only F2.8, when there is an EF-M F 2.0. I think Canon totally missed that. Not Fuji.

"Constant" f/2 seems out of context for pancake primes. You mean an f/2 zoom, right?

In that case, the short answer is "Because physics is a jerk." Ask Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 owners. Optically it's great, but that lens weighs nearly two pounds and it has a limited zoom range. It's a niche lens for enthusiast APS-C owners, likely 70D or 7D2 owners who do not want to migrate to FF. Canon will not make a dime with such a lens.

If you want small DOF / large aperture, that's kind of what FF shines at, right? Besides the FF sensor upsides over crop, there also are a boatload more native fast prime lenses for FF.

- A

Right, I'm not focused on pancakes, neither on primes. Although no EF-S primes (except 60mm macro), now, from Canon. I thought that providing a stop less, was a way to compensate the weaknesses of the APS-C format (I do not want to migrate to FF). This market is a small niche maybe, but I'm considering Fuji or Sony, and I know 4 people that made the switch. In a few months...
I'll do the switch for short focals. For tele, I'll keep my 7D & Canon glasses.
BTW, sigma lenses are always heavy.
 
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dilbert said:
Haydn1971 said:
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I'm also very sceptical of the rumour of the 7DII being the last "pro" crop camera.

Depends ... maybe the 7D2 didn't sell well enough to make sense for the company to produce a 7D3.

Or maybe Canon figures that if you're "pro" you should be buying a 1D/5D series camera and buying EF, not EF-S glass to go with it.

Whilst plenty of people on CR like the 7D2, the population that chats here is hardly representative of the wider market.

I quickly directed my browser at Amazon ... http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-DSLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941 ... 7D2 is not on that page.
The Amazon link shows that the second best-selling camera is the Lytro ILLUM 40. No one could believe that it is representative of the market reality. Probably this ranking, refers to the best-selling cameras in the last 60 minutes or so.

For a more realistic sample I prefer to watch the amount of REVIEWS in BH and Adorama stores, considering the time a camera model is available for sale. Canon 7D Mark II has 233 reviews (body only) from October 2014 until November 2015. On the other hand, Lytro ILLUM 40 has only 3 reviews at the same time. Sony A77 II has only 74 reviews from June 2014 until October 2015.
 
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Jan 21, 2015
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dilbert said:
Or maybe Canon figures that if you're "pro" you should be buying a 1D/5D series camera and buying EF, not EF-S glass to go with it.
I feel like it's more "buy this 7DII and couple L-teles", like 100-400mmII, it's quite heck lot of cheaper than a 1DX with same focal range and 1DX+lens combo gets quickly ridiculously expensive if you go after same effective focal length.
However as you said, for regular shooting (for "pros" at least) you're much better with especially with 5D. Let's hope it won't be last "pro" APC-S camera from canon, after all, you're getting really nice top-level features for quite small amount of money (although it has crop sensor). :p
 
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WIDEnet

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Personally, for both event/PJ shooting stills and for my upcoming (hopefully) Ursa Mini 4.6K EF (1.45x CF sensor) I'd kill for a 15-60/70 f/2.8. The wider range isn't isn't quite a as critical for me on the 4.6K as on the C-series since with the wider field of view and much higher resolution, I have basically a 2x built in TC and a 0.85x wide angle adapter when delivering in 1080p if the lens is sharp, and still at least some wiggle room in 4K/UHD, but its still pretty handy for doc and run and gun like I'll be doing. For event and PJ work its just killer, and in many cases might let me haul out only one 7D instead of two.

The biggest thing I'd want outside of more range is easily mechanical/build quality; something on par with the 18-35 would be ideal and would put it head and shoulders above all the other crop midrange fast zooms which match up very closely with the current 17-55 on pretty much everything. Specifically, a large, longer throw, damped, front mounted focus ring, solid finish (despite its more than adequate optical quality, both the 17-55 and sigma 17-50 don't exactly send a strong professional vibe to clients, nor to me with regards to their durability), and being roughly parfocal and with lower focus breathing is what I'm after.

After that would be a stop or two better IS and a little sharper wide open with better coatings for better transmissions, but those are all minor compared to the mechanical quality and range. Right now for me its down to keeping my current 17-50 or switching out for the 17-55, bascially all on the merits of focusing--basically whether to plunk down ~$200 net to trade up to the 17-55's with almost double the throw and smoother operation (plus a little better build quality and range and more reliable focus for stills), relative to my current 17-50 which though has hard markings and stops, is a tad wider and properly front mounted. But both pale in comparison to that of the 18-35, so I'd rejoice if Canon gave us something on a similar level just for that.

The physical limitations would preclude a reasonably sized and priced 17-55 (or more) f/2+ with IS, as much as I'd like it, so I'd be content with the greater range to give me more of a reason to have both the f/2.8 and the sigma in my arsenal, or maybe even just the former for now. A good while back Tamron came out with a 28-105 f/2.8 which is the rough equivalent of a 17-70 on crop, so if Canon could make something like that a bit wider (and sharper obviously) with IS and 18-35-level mechanics, I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it was fully $1000.
 
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WIDEnet

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Jan 23, 2015
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MYB said:
15-85mm is sharp but it must be F/4.

Not sure what you mean by that...they could make a constant f/4 version of the current 15-85 which would probably satisfy some folks, but for cinema on s35 (APS-C) I'm not sure most would want to give up the DoF and low light advantages of f/2.8 for not that much more range. For stills there's less even advantage given the constant aperture is less of an issue since only at longer focal lengths do you gain up to a stop (losing a bit on the wide end), and the current version is already pretty good, so I hear.

If you mean its realistically impossible to make a 15-85 f/2.8, I would dispute that claim. A good while ago now Tamron made a fairly cheap 28-105/2.8 (for full frame, ofc) which a crop equivalent would be ~17-65/70, and given the generally longer focal length ranges/larger apertures one can get away with on crop for equivalent cost and lens size, plus significant advances in technology and the greater Canon R&D budget (and likely lens price), a 15/16-70/80 is far from out of the question. With how much sharper lenses have gotten even in the years since the 17-55 was released, performance would likely not suffer too much, and it would certainly be more than adequate for 4K. Furthermore, Canon really does need a good entry level starter zoom with enough range for basic docu for the C series, along the lines of Sony's 28-135/4, and this would do quite nicely indeed.

Of course, this may not be at all what you are saying haha.
 
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WIDEnet said:
MYB said:
15-85mm is sharp but it must be F/4.

Not sure what you mean by that...they could make a constant f/4 version of the current 15-85 which would probably satisfy some folks, but for cinema on s35 (APS-C) I'm not sure most would want to give up the DoF and low light advantages of f/2.8 for not that much more range. For stills there's less even advantage given the constant aperture is less of an issue since only at longer focal lengths do you gain up to a stop (losing a bit on the wide end), and the current version is already pretty good, so I hear.

If you mean its realistically impossible to make a 15-85 f/2.8, I would dispute that claim. A good while ago now Tamron made a fairly cheap 28-105/2.8 (for full frame, ofc) which a crop equivalent would be ~17-65/70, and given the generally longer focal length ranges/larger apertures one can get away with on crop for equivalent cost and lens size, plus significant advances in technology and the greater Canon R&D budget (and likely lens price), a 15/16-70/80 is far from out of the question. With how much sharper lenses have gotten even in the years since the 17-55 was released, performance would likely not suffer too much, and it would certainly be more than adequate for 4K. Furthermore, Canon really does need a good entry level starter zoom with enough range for basic docu for the C series, along the lines of Sony's 28-135/4, and this would do quite nicely indeed.

Of course, this may not be at all what you are saying haha.

No, i'm not expecting a 15-85mm F/2.8 it would be big and expensive. I mean 15-85mm don't need to be replace but canon can make a 15-85mm F/4 like 24-105mm F/4 on FF.
Sorry for poor English :)
 
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Maximilian

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Canon Rumors said:
...the most likely lenses for replacement would be the EF-S 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 or the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS. ...
If it's the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 ISto be replaced , will/should it stay USM or will/should it become STM?
According to Canons philosophy it could get STM (see 24-105 STM). Is STM good enough for that lens?

What do you guys think?
 
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WIDEnet

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Jan 23, 2015
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MYB said:
Sorry for poor English :)

No problem, just trying to make sure I understand what you mean.

MYB said:
No, i'm not expecting a 15-85mm F/2.8 it would be big and expensive.

A 15-85/2.8 would be a little much, true. But given the precedents I stated previously, something like a 16-70/2.8 or even a little more would not be out of the question, and would still be near the price and weight range of the current 17-55.

MYB said:
I mean 15-85mm don't need to be replace but canon can make a 15-85mm F/4 like 24-105mm F/4 on FF.

It would replace the 17-55, not the 15-85, as stated previously, filling the same niche with a little expanded range for event shooters, PJs and video (run and gun). But I really don't see a clear market opportunity for a 15-85 f/4 on crop, since you lose a stop or more of light over FF the actual equivalent would be something like a 15-70/2.6. Anyone caring enough about a constant aperture for stills would likely want f/2.8 anyway to get close to what the 24-105 provides on full frame. For video, the added range over the 17-55 just isn't enough, at least for me, to justify the stop of light I'd be losing unless I was shooting on a FS7 or C-series, in which case I'd likely be looking at much more expensive glass anyway.
 
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Jan 21, 2015
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Maximilian said:
Canon Rumors said:
...the most likely lenses for replacement would be the EF-S 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 or the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS. ...
If it's the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 ISto be replaced , will/should it stay USM or will/should it become STM?
According to Canons philosophy it could get STM (see 24-105 STM). Is STM good enough for that lens?

What do you guys think?
I don't think it would have STM, you know unlike 24-105L the 17-55 isn't a "kit zoom" but more like the pro option for crop.

However who knows what they (canon) will come up with...
 
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WIDEnet

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Jan 23, 2015
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Maximilian said:
If it's the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 ISto be replaced , will/should it stay USM or will/should it become STM?
According to Canons philosophy it could get STM (see 24-105 STM). Is STM good enough for that lens?

No question it will and should be USM. As a semi-pro level lens, the 24-70 equivalent for crop and bread and butter for all manner of demanding shooters, anything less than the speed, silence, and true MF of USM is unacceptable. For video, while STM may claim to be a bit smoother and more accurate, the folks using this lens rather than the lesser models will be mostly/entirely pulling focus with it anyway, nullifying any advantage and making the focus by wire system an impediment rather than an asset. Unless Canon has completely given up on crop for serious shooters (which so far they haven't with the 7D2 and new lens announcements) and forgotten about all the people using the original for video, there is little doubt it will be USM.
 
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WIDEnet

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macVega said:
I have used both focusings systems enuff to know that USM stands for "Ultra Sonic Motor" and STM stands for "Slow Terrible Motor"... ???

Haha so true, though I would argue Slightly (less) Terrible Motor (relative to MM) since its at least a little quieter and maybe a little smoother from the little I've used it, though really no faster and the FTM is really just a FBW system. Then again, that's essentially what I've had to live with on handheld camcorders up until this point, with the VX-2100/PD-170 through the DVX100 and the AC130A I just sold to save up for the 4.6K...but those systems were obviously much better tuned and more responsive relative to consumer technology designed for folks who don't have to rely on it to get critical focus, like STM.
 
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