Next L Lens From Canon Will be a Prime [CR2]

Hjalmarg1

Photo Hobbyist
Oct 8, 2013
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Doha, Qatar
Luds34 said:
As for the 50 I agree. It would be tough if the new one is only f/2, kind of a step back. And I agree that I would probably pass on it (despite how bad Canon needs a decent, consumer level 50) if it was that slow. With how good optics/designs are getting, one of last big advantages primes have over zooms is their (more often then not) faster speeds. That is why I have not understood the new 24mm and 28mm, them only being f/2.8.
If the new 50mm comes with f/1.8, IS and IQ similar to the 35mm f/2 IS you'll see money departing from my pocket but price shall be reasonable. Otherwise, it'll go for the Sigma 50A.
I agree that the new 24mm and 28mm IS lenses should have been f/2 rather than f/2.8. I had them both and sold them after I saw no need when I bought the 24-70mm f/2.8L II lens.
 
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May 15, 2014
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ahsanford said:
But the prior non-L 24 and 28 primes were f/2.8 as well -- Canon simply modernized those prior designs.

I have the 28 f/2.8 IS and I am truly fond of it. It's such a sweet spot of IQ, features and size/weight. It's a perfect walkaround on my 5D3, IMHO. Unless you are shooting a lot of astro or environmental portraiture, I'm hard pressed to think of a need for f/2 or faster in those focal lengths.

- A

Fair enough points. f/2.8 is pretty fast for full frame and should let in enough light for below average, indoor lighting, etc. the things beyond stopped down landscapes, etc. And while I mentioned lens speed as one of the big advantages, obviously size/weight is another huge selling point. I own the 28mm f/1.8 which I picked up years ago as a "normal" prime on crop. Even though this lens gets ripped apart a lot in technical, brick wall shooting, reviews, I've enjoyed it alot. While it would never have been high on my full frame list, I'm looking forward to trying it out shortly when my 6D arrives.
 
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May 15, 2014
918
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Ripley said:
lc235 said:
I literally just purchased the Sigma 35mm Art today -_-. Do you guys think the rumored 35mm L II will make me regret my purchase? :'(

No existing lens can compete with the 35A, let alone a rumored one. We'll see where the chips fall if/when the 35L II materializes.

35mm is one of my favorite focal lengths. I'm very seriously considering picking up the 35 Art. I at first thought, just get the new Canon 35 f/2 IS. But then I got to thinking, I already have the 40mm f/2.8 pancake. It's kind of like, if you can only get one, the 35 f/2 IS is a good compromise of aperture, image quality, and size/weight. But, I think I like the route of the shorty forty for when I want small and light, and the 35A for the ultimate pure IQ and fast f/1.4 aperture. Anyone disagree with that thinking?
 
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Jan 11, 2013
105
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Unfortunately, Canon's recent releases are either blah optics (ex...24mm, 28mm or 40mm 2.8) or OVER PRICED excellent optics but slow (11-24mm f4, 16-35 f4).

Why can't Canon innovate and produce quality optics for decent prices (Sigma, Tamron, heck even Rokinon with their manual focus lenses at cheap prices).

Either way, Canon is spitting out products but it seems like it is all lack luster stuff (with exception of the 7DMkII).

I get more excited to see what Sony and Nikon are doing with their full frames, and wondering when Canon will catch up.
 
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First of all a little history about the 50/1.2, 50/1.0, and 85/1.2 designs from Canon.

The EF 50/1.2L is descended from the FD 50/1.2 manual focus lenses, and from a optical design standpoint, it has more in common with the even older FL 55/1.2L and its contemporaries (like the well-known Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2 and the much more obscure Yashica ML 55/1.2) than it has with the EF 50/1.0L. But the EF 50/1.2L is also different: it gives up some center sharpness in exchange for smoother background bokeh compared to the old manual focus lenses.

I speculate that this design choice was motivated by a perceived need to fill the void left by the discontinuation of the EF 50/1.0L, but this is not something anyone not working in lens development at Canon at the time can substantiate.

As for the EF 50/1.0L, optically, this lens was quite novel in design. The use of high refractive index glass to correct sagittal flare and aspherical elements to reduce spherical aberration wide open was not a new idea in itself, but the particular implementation was distinctive. The design is not without its flaws: it wasn't especially sharp; contrast suffered, especially in the image periphery. It behaves a bit like the 85L shot wide open in that there's sharpness at some wavelengths and not at others; and sharpness at certain spatial frequencies and not at others. But in a sense, that's what gave the images a distinctive look (apart from being f/1.0), and a character that lends itself to things like low-contrast, low-light portraiture. And of course, like the 85L, it was hard to nail focus and unwieldy. But for a design in a time when film was the photographic medium of choice, you can't really argue that the EF 50/1.0L didn't fulfill any specific purpose. It's just that the drawbacks and the cost (both to produce as well as buy), not to mention its niche nature, made for poor marketability.

As for the EF 85/1.2L design (both I and II, as the optical formula is identical), this is very obviously the EF descendant of the earlier FD 85/1.2L. The formula was tweaked, but the overall imaging performance is remarkably similar. The EF 85/1.2L and 50/1.0L are the only lenses designed to take full advantage of the diameter of the EF mount--they remain the only lenses ever made by Canon for which the rear element glass goes right up to the end of the lens, and goes across the full diameter. No other autofocusing SLR system is capable of such designs.

What is the future? Since the design of the EF 50/1.0L, a number of advances have been made in computational optics, materials engineering, and production engineering. The potential absolutely does exist to create a lens that is optically superior in terms of aberration correction. But Canon is headed in the opposite direction: they have consistently shown more interest in sacrificing fast apertures in favor of IS and using sensor ISO to compensate, because the latter is more cost-effective and leads to lighter lenses with larger design tolerances. The demand for ever-higher resolution sensors (the meapixel race) has further shifted lens design philosophy toward high MTFs.

So, the ostensible obsolescence of the 50/1.0L is mourned by a small but devoted group of photographers for whom sharpness is decidedly not the end-all and be-all of image-making. And with the increasing popularity of DSLR video, one might have a faint glimmer of hope that fast apertures will once again find a purpose. But I don't believe Canon has put any priority on fast primes. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. It would be wonderful to see Canon release a worthy successor to the 50/1.2L or 50/1.0L. But the historical trend doesn't furnish any evidence for that. If anything, we might see some weird 50/1.4L priced around $900, the disappearance of the 50/1.4, and an upgrade to the 50/1.8 II at the old 50/1.4 price point--"and let the $100 bargain hunters buy the Yongnuo," they might think.

Or if this rumored lens is an EF 35/1.4L II, I imagine it'll be upwards of $1600, easily. It isn't that my pessimism is a criticism of Canon--if anything, they are simply responding to the market, which has been asking for nothing but "Sharp! Sharp! Sharp!!!" It's just what I see from the historical trend in the past 3-4 years. A 5Ds-R might even expose flaws in the beloved EF 135/2L.
 
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TheJock

Location: Dubai
Oct 10, 2013
555
2
Dubai
dolina said:
Film-era L lenses. Year cut off is 2004

Primes
1993 EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
.
.
.
.
We are entering an era where in old lenses will show their design flaws on high pixel density cameras like the 5DS & 5DS R
.
Personally speaking, I would like to see a 400 or 500mmL with f4, if this could be offered between $2,500 to $3,200 (non IS version?) I think it will outsell the 100-400 (once that dies down a little) and become a firm favourite with all the wildlife photog’s, it’s about time Canon gave a little something to us guys, but that’s probably a pipe dream!!!
 
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epsiloneri said:
EF 400/5.6L IS would also be an L prime. Somehow it seems to have fallen out of rumour favour lately, after the new 100-400 I guess.

Yes, and that's why a EF 500/5,6L IS is more likely. That would be a perfect lens for bird shooters.
Or maybe a EF 600/5,6L DO IS? More expensive of course, but would be half the price and weight of the current EF 600/4L IS II.
 
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drob said:
Unfortunately, Canon's recent releases are either blah optics (ex...24mm, 28mm or 40mm 2.8) or OVER PRICED excellent optics but slow (11-24mm f4, 16-35 f4).

Why can't Canon innovate and produce quality optics for decent prices (Sigma, Tamron, heck even Rokinon with their manual focus lenses at cheap prices).

Either way, Canon is spitting out products but it seems like it is all lack luster stuff (with exception of the 7DMkII).

I get more excited to see what Sony and Nikon are doing with their full frames, and wondering when Canon will catch up.

You mention the EF 16-35/4L IS. This super sharp lens is one of my favourites and is not over priced at all! Slow? Not at all! It is very sharp even wide open and can therefore be used at f4. This is not the case with the old EF 17-40/4L and 16-35/2,8L which both has to be stepped down to f8 to give decent results with a full format sensor.
The new 16-35/4L IS is even sharp enough for the new 50Mpix sensor of the 5Ds which I have per ordered. And with a 50Mpix sensor IS becomes important, especially if you want sharp landscapes photos without using a tripod.

I just sold a Nikon D810 and a Nikkor AF-S 14-24/2,8 lens. Why? The Nikkor lens was very heavy, expensive and most important: it was not possible to use filters. The EF 16-35/4L IS is as sharp, cheaper and a much better choice.

Even you can afford it if you do like me: just reduce the number of lenses from 6 cheap ones to 2 good ones.... :)
 
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Canon Rumors said:
<p>Outside of that, we’re still waiting on a new non L 50mm lens as well as a non L/non DO 70-300 replacement.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
<div id="adkengage_ssp_div"></div>
<script
type="text/javascript"
src="http://adkengage.com/pshandler.js?aid=11563&v=Rzv9QQ%2BeQKSVnAaEOwTXfA%3D%3D&dpid=6638&ru=http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-admin/post.php"
>
</script>

I need a non-L 28-300mm IS (or 24-240mm), which is the competitor of Nikon 28-300mm and Sony 24-240mm.
 
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Aug 22, 2013
932
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chromophore said:
First of all a little history about the 50/1.2, 50/1.0, and 85/1.2 designs from Canon.

The EF 50/1.2L is descended from the FD 50/1.2 manual focus lenses, and from a optical design standpoint, it has more in common with the even older FL 55/1.2L and its contemporaries (like the well-known Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2 and the much more obscure Yashica ML 55/1.2) than it has with the EF 50/1.0L. But the EF 50/1.2L is also different: it gives up some center sharpness in exchange for smoother background bokeh compared to the old manual focus lenses.

I speculate that this design choice was motivated by a perceived need to fill the void left by the discontinuation of the EF 50/1.0L, but this is not something anyone not working in lens development at Canon at the time can substantiate.

As for the EF 50/1.0L, optically, this lens was quite novel in design. The use of high refractive index glass to correct sagittal flare and aspherical elements to reduce spherical aberration wide open was not a new idea in itself, but the particular implementation was distinctive. The design is not without its flaws: it wasn't especially sharp; contrast suffered, especially in the image periphery. It behaves a bit like the 85L shot wide open in that there's sharpness at some wavelengths and not at others; and sharpness at certain spatial frequencies and not at others. But in a sense, that's what gave the images a distinctive look (apart from being f/1.0), and a character that lends itself to things like low-contrast, low-light portraiture. And of course, like the 85L, it was hard to nail focus and unwieldy. But for a design in a time when film was the photographic medium of choice, you can't really argue that the EF 50/1.0L didn't fulfill any specific purpose. It's just that the drawbacks and the cost (both to produce as well as buy), not to mention its niche nature, made for poor marketability.

As for the EF 85/1.2L design (both I and II, as the optical formula is identical), this is very obviously the EF descendant of the earlier FD 85/1.2L. The formula was tweaked, but the overall imaging performance is remarkably similar. The EF 85/1.2L and 50/1.0L are the only lenses designed to take full advantage of the diameter of the EF mount--they remain the only lenses ever made by Canon for which the rear element glass goes right up to the end of the lens, and goes across the full diameter. No other autofocusing SLR system is capable of such designs.

What is the future? Since the design of the EF 50/1.0L, a number of advances have been made in computational optics, materials engineering, and production engineering. The potential absolutely does exist to create a lens that is optically superior in terms of aberration correction. But Canon is headed in the opposite direction: they have consistently shown more interest in sacrificing fast apertures in favor of IS and using sensor ISO to compensate, because the latter is more cost-effective and leads to lighter lenses with larger design tolerances. The demand for ever-higher resolution sensors (the meapixel race) has further shifted lens design philosophy toward high MTFs.

So, the ostensible obsolescence of the 50/1.0L is mourned by a small but devoted group of photographers for whom sharpness is decidedly not the end-all and be-all of image-making. And with the increasing popularity of DSLR video, one might have a faint glimmer of hope that fast apertures will once again find a purpose. But I don't believe Canon has put any priority on fast primes. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. It would be wonderful to see Canon release a worthy successor to the 50/1.2L or 50/1.0L. But the historical trend doesn't furnish any evidence for that. If anything, we might see some weird 50/1.4L priced around $900, the disappearance of the 50/1.4, and an upgrade to the 50/1.8 II at the old 50/1.4 price point--"and let the $100 bargain hunters buy the Yongnuo," they might think.

Or if this rumored lens is an EF 35/1.4L II, I imagine it'll be upwards of $1600, easily. It isn't that my pessimism is a criticism of Canon--if anything, they are simply responding to the market, which has been asking for nothing but "Sharp! Sharp! Sharp!!!" It's just what I see from the historical trend in the past 3-4 years. A 5Ds-R might even expose flaws in the beloved EF 135/2L.

I see what you are saying, and believe me I am no sharpness freak - the 50mm f/1.2L is my favorite lens despite having the much sharper 24-70 f/2.8L II.

But, personally I think Canon nailed it with the 50mm f/1.2L and it was the correct choice over the 50mm f/1.0L. Even if new advances in optics were able to overcome the flaring, reduced sharpness, and other artifacts of the 50mm f/1.0L, it would still have that mountain of glass to move which would result in taking a step backwards to slow, more easily broken autofocus of the 85L. And then the little things like the easily scratched rear element, no weather sealing likely due to autofocus mechanic, etc. The 50mm f/1.2L offers much of the same look of the 50mm f/1.0L while being a whole lot more practical and less unwieldy. In fact, I hope they make an 85mm f/1.4L with similar changes.
 
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Jan 11, 2013
105
12
Finn M said:
drob said:
Unfortunately, Canon's recent releases are either blah optics (ex...24mm, 28mm or 40mm 2.8) or OVER PRICED excellent optics but slow (11-24mm f4, 16-35 f4).

Why can't Canon innovate and produce quality optics for decent prices (Sigma, Tamron, heck even Rokinon with their manual focus lenses at cheap prices).

Either way, Canon is spitting out products but it seems like it is all lack luster stuff (with exception of the 7DMkII).

I get more excited to see what Sony and Nikon are doing with their full frames, and wondering when Canon will catch up.

You mention the EF 16-35/4L IS. This super sharp lens is one of my favourites and is not over priced at all! Slow? Not at all! It is very sharp even wide open and can therefore be used at f4. This is not the case with the old EF 17-40/4L and 16-35/2,8L which both has to be stepped down to f8 to give decent results with a full format sensor.
The new 16-35/4L IS is even sharp enough for the new 50Mpix sensor of the 5Ds which I have per ordered. And with a 50Mpix sensor IS becomes important, especially if you want sharp landscapes photos without using a tripod.

I just sold a Nikon D810 and a Nikkor AF-S 14-24/2,8 lens. Why? The Nikkor lens was very heavy, expensive and most important: it was not possible to use filters. The EF 16-35/4L IS is as sharp, cheaper and a much better choice.

Even you can afford it if you do like me: just reduce the number of lenses from 6 cheap ones to 2 good ones.... :)

Yeah, I'm a father of 2 with a stay at home wife...anything over 1K is overpriced to me. If Sigma is producing excellent lenses, most of which are <1K, I would suspect Canon can compete. IF I was going to shell out the cash for the EF 16-35, I would expect a f/2.8. Who needs IS on a tripod shooting landscape??
 
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drob said:
Yeah, I'm a father of 2 with a stay at home wife...anything over 1K is overpriced to me. If Sigma is producing excellent lenses, most of which are <1K, I would suspect Canon can compete. IF I was going to shell out the cash for the EF 16-35, I would expect a f/2.8. Who needs IS on a tripod shooting landscape??

I shoot a lot of landscape, both on and off a tripod. For the non-tripod stuff, the 16-35/4's IS is fantastic! Since I don't use this lens for astro photography, f/4 is fine. I think Canon did a fantastic job with this lens and I'm happy with the price point. It's not the prefect UWA zoom for everybody, but it is for many of us.
 
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Luds34 said:
Ripley said:
lc235 said:
I literally just purchased the Sigma 35mm Art today -_-. Do you guys think the rumored 35mm L II will make me regret my purchase? :'(

No existing lens can compete with the 35A, let alone a rumored one. We'll see where the chips fall if/when the 35L II materializes.

35mm is one of my favorite focal lengths. I'm very seriously considering picking up the 35 Art. I at first thought, just get the new Canon 35 f/2 IS. But then I got to thinking, I already have the 40mm f/2.8 pancake. It's kind of like, if you can only get one, the 35 f/2 IS is a good compromise of aperture, image quality, and size/weight. But, I think I like the route of the shorty forty for when I want small and light, and the 35A for the ultimate pure IQ and fast f/1.4 aperture. Anyone disagree with that thinking?

It's not about if any of us disagrees with your thinking; it's about what you want to do. Personally, I barely use my 40/2.8 after getting my 35/2IS, which just takes better pictures for me. It won't match the 35A though, of course, so for you your course of logic may work. Does the 35A hit a price/image quality point you want? If you had it, would you never pick up the 35/2IS? If so, it makes sense.
 
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