No EOS-1D X Replacement in 2014 [CR2]

[Dylan777]

Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X?

Instead of 41 cross AF pts, about 65 AF pts all cross. About another 3/4 to one fullstop at higher ISO. Otherwise, I agree with you. The X is an amazing camera. We human(including myself) always want better, faster, and more precise.

I'm sure others will come up with more, but those are what I'm hoping in X II. I don't mind getting more surprises from Canon in X II body.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?

To get 3 stops more low ISO DR and get rid of low ISO banding?
To get a nice 4k?
To get crisp 1080p without RAW?
To get more MP?

And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?

Dual pixel, new RGB+IR metering.

These might be nice, but as someone who actually owns a 5DIII, I don't find any of these to be compelling reasons to upgrade. Judging by some of the comments and recent polls on this site, I'm not sure many other 5DIII owners are feeling a need to upgrade either. Waiting another year or two for more significant technological improvements might make more sense.

What more significant improvements? If 4k isn't anything, nor crisp 1080p, nor firmware with aids that actually let you focus video and see blown highlights, nor better metering, nor dual pixel AF, nor 3 stops DR at low ISO, nor 1+ stops DR at high ISO, nor 46-46MP, etc. what are you expecting?

First, I'm not sure your wish list is realistic.

Second, I'm not a video person, so neither 4K nor 1080 p has any interest for me personally. (Although I recognize that it might interest video people) but not convinced it is such a necessity that some people think, given that now and for the foreseeable future most video is going to live on the internet.

I can see blown highlights without the camera telling me.

I'm regularly amazed at how good the existing Canon metering is already. Even when I bracket to compensate, the camera's chosen exposure is almost always spot on.

I don't use live view, so dual pixel has never been a big interest.

You should know by now that low ISO dynamic range isn't a big deal to me. (I'll take it if given to me, but I'm not interested in paying for it.)

I'm always interested in high ISO improvements, but pretty pleased with the 5DIII's performance as it is.

And, for me, 46 mp is not a plus, it's a negative.

Now, I know that's just me. But, reading a lot of comments on this site from a lot of 5DIII owners, I think I may be more typical than you suspect.

So, what would interest me?

In-camera AFMA;
Lightfield technology, offering post-exposure focusing;

Throw in user friendly wi-fi and touchscreen, higher frame rate, an in-camera photo editing program (especially one that can be linked to an iPad) so you can edit images, convert them to jpeg and post to the internet all without having to first transfer the files to a computer, better weather sealing, and a few other improvements we haven't thought of yet.

Aside from the Lightfield technology, which may be a few more years away from making autofocus systems obsolete, the rest of this stuff should be either available now or available in the near future.

In the meantime, my main point is simply that I'm content with the current 5DIII and don't see much that would make me upgrade.

Oh, well if lightfield is the only thing you'd consider big then I think you'll be waiting well more than another year or two. Well, well, well, well, well, well, more. More like another decade or two for a FF DSLR with everything else also top quality.

I don't think anything in my list is unrealistic. Crisp 1080p you can already get from others. 4k is already out (even if external recording only for APSC/FF size for now). Exmor-like DR is obviously already out. More than 23MP is already out in FF. Focus aids for video and zebras are already out. Zoomed video modes are already out. Better metering is already out.

I mean if the 5D4 doesn't have crisp 1080p video or 4k or more MP or better DR and pixel quality or zoomed video modes or better metering what will it have? Lightfield is YEARS away at best. So what, in cam AMFA? After all these years we waited just for in camera AMFA? And are expected to shell out thousands for that? If the 5D4 has none of that stuff, it will be left in the dust, heck even by the 5D3 (since a 5D3 with ML at least has crisp 1080p option, video focusing aids, zebras).

What would it have finally the fixed AutoISO (a 1 penny feature to implement) and in camera AMFA? That sells the 5D4?? How low can you set the bar?

 

[9VIII]

Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.

All the f/5.6 points are also sensitive at f/2.8. It's a question of precision. Have they made the all-new AF sensor with small enough pixels that even the f/5.6 sensitive points are just as precise at f/2.8 as the old f/2.8 points were at f/2.8, and the new f/2.8 points much more precise with f/1.4 lenses than the old f/2.8 points were?

The specs for the new sensor as for DOF precision don't seem to have been released yet. Or, at least I haven't seen them.

I think this is the information you're looking for.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d_mark_ii?selectedName=Features&fileName=0901e02480cf26fa_feature3.html

But then they give the caveat "The number of available AF points, and whether single line or cross-type, varies depending on the lens."
I have no idea what they're talking about, unless some of the AF points are cross type at f5.6 and become single line at an aperture faster than f5.6, which really just sounds dumb.
Then there's the overly optimistic idea that some of the AF points surrounding the center still work at f8, but you'd think they would have said as much if that were the case, given how big a deal f8 autofocus is.

I guess this would be why some people are so eagerly awaiting the release of the manual.

 

[Lee Jay]

Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.

All the f/5.6 points are also sensitive at f/2.8. It's a question of precision. Have they made the all-new AF sensor with small enough pixels that even the f/5.6 sensitive points are just as precise at f/2.8 as the old f/2.8 points were at f/2.8, and the new f/2.8 points much more precise with f/1.4 lenses than the old f/2.8 points were?

The specs for the new sensor as for DOF precision don't seem to have been released yet. Or, at least I haven't seen them.

I think this is the information you're looking for.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d_mark_ii?selectedName=Features&fileName=0901e02480cf26fa_feature3.html

But then they give the caveat "The number of available AF points, and whether single line or cross-type, varies depending on the lens."
I have no idea what they're talking about, unless some of the AF points are cross type at f5.6 and become single line at an aperture faster than f5.6, which really just sounds dumb.
Then there's the overly optimistic idea that some of the AF points surrounding the center still work at f8, but you'd think they would have said as much if that were the case, given how big a deal f8 autofocus is.

I guess this would be why some people are so eagerly awaiting the release of the manual.

The manual is out, and this didn't have the needed information. Are the focus points accurate to 1 DOF, 1/3 of the DOF, 1/10th of the DOF, etc.?

 

[gjones5252]

I am defiantly waiting on the new upgrade. The 7dm2 sounds good. Wished for high megapixels but that's really not what the 7d line is meant for.
I have never had a 1 series body. The next 1 whatever that's released will probably end up big my first. If it has either high megapixels or 4k it will meet my needs.

Also I have a theory. I think Canon should have different firmwares depending on whether your a video shooter or a photo shooter. Not so much that you lose functionality but the menu changes to show you and adapt the buttons to your needs. When I am shooting video I do need video jobs it's annoying to access video features. Especially if they add more.
Or we will just start shooting video and pulling high res stills.

 

[ewg963]

But when?

I'm mostly curious about the 5D replacement. Spring or not?

Not spring. Canon has to milk buyers with the 7D2 for a year or so. If they released 5D4 with 7D2's AF feature in spring (5 months after 7D2 got released (not introduced)), who would buy the 7D2, if the 5D4 offers same or even tweaked AF with slightly lower frame, but better IQ?

I find it strange they haven't introduced a new rebel yet. It's been 18 months now.

The 5D and 7D are two whole different markets apple and oranges....

 

[ewg963]

I disagree with you on this point.

Those looking only for one camera, namely a 7D2, are not the target market for a 5D4. One is 2x the price of the other. However, those dropping 3600 for a 5D4 can also afford the 1800 for a 7D2. Also, they are two totally different formats/tools (crop&speed vs. full-frame&sensitivity). The extra reach of crop, vs. the creative capabilities of full-frame are huge factors to many pro buyers that cannot be ignored; saying it is just speed vs. slightly better IQ is an oversimplification of what the two bodies offer.

In short, the 7D2 won't effect sales of a 5D4. Buyers on a budget looking for one camera will get a 7D2. Pros with the budget for a 5D4 will either get only a 5D4, or both a 5D4 and a 7D2. They are a dangerous (ie, perfect) pairing.

+100000000000000000000000000

 

[ewg963]

I hope they pull a big surprise. 7D2 will have no measurable effect on a 5D3, let alone a 5D4. I don't understand why people keep trying to compare the two as competing bodies. They are not, nor will ever be. Not in price and not in use.

I think Canon needs to make a statement before 2015. We have the sensors out there. Even if from Sony. I'd love to see a Sony sensor in a Canon system. Talk about the best of everything!

+100000000000000000000000000000

 

[jeffa4444]

Here are some hard facts:-
Globally full frame DSLRs represent 7% of the available market as of H1 2014. Cropped 64% and CSC 29% (this is solely for inter-changeable cameras not fixed lens). Admittedly the full frame segment is where their is some stability in value & cameras shipped but its not significantly growing. In 2014 CSC globally grew by 17% and 19% in value.

The camera makers are stuck, Smart Phones have taken the lower end and the upper end is saturated the only way to reverse this is with a sesmic shift in design and technology. To most people a four year old camera gives similar results to one this year. Arguably the 2009 7d is inferior to the IQ from the 2014 7dMKII but many will not decern the difference in normal shooting conditions. Certainly the main lenses sold with these cameras have hardly changed so Japan, Korea, China & Germany have a problem which calls for REAL innovation.

Figures quoted published industry data

 

[keithcooper]

Here are some hard facts:-

Whoa - dangerous talk on a forum like this sir! ;-)

As ever, I'm strongly inclined to agree with Thom Hogan's comments about the concerted efforts of camera companies to bury their heads in sand, or at least stick fingers in ears and hum... http://www.bythom.com

Of course the real elephant in rooms like this is that changing cameras/lenses will make tiny (and largely irrelevant) differences to most people's photography, and they ought to get out more and spend more time actually taking photos.

OK, time to get my coat... ;-)

 

[RodS57]

Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.

All the f/5.6 points are also sensitive at f/2.8. It's a question of precision. Have they made the all-new AF sensor with small enough pixels that even the f/5.6 sensitive points are just as precise at f/2.8 as the old f/2.8 points were at f/2.8, and the new f/2.8 points much more precise with f/1.4 lenses than the old f/2.8 points were?

The specs for the new sensor as for DOF precision don't seem to have been released yet. Or, at least I haven't seen them.

I think this is the information you're looking for.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d_mark_ii?selectedName=Features&fileName=0901e02480cf26fa_feature3.html

But then they give the caveat "The number of available AF points, and whether single line or cross-type, varies depending on the lens."
I have no idea what they're talking about, unless some of the AF points are cross type at f5.6 and become single line at an aperture faster than f5.6, which really just sounds dumb.
Then there's the overly optimistic idea that some of the AF points surrounding the center still work at f8, but you'd think they would have said as much if that were the case, given how big a deal f8 autofocus is.

I guess this would be why some people are so eagerly awaiting the release of the manual.

After going through the focus guide and the same section in the manual it looks like

Centre point is double cross if lens is faster than Or equal to F2.8 all others are single cross
All points are single cross for lens with a max aperture of F5.6
With a max aperture smaller than F5.6 (say 6.3) you start to lose the crosses. The points become single line vertical or horizontal points and you start to lose access to points at the extreme edges of the array. Looking at the tables both my 15-85 and 70-300L are in table 'B' so I get 65 cross type points. Don't know about the Tammy 150-600.

Disclaimer: I really don't know anything about this stuff.

The latest fly in the ointment is the software release which, from the specs, requires a minimum of Windows 7 to run. Uh-oh, the only computer here that I can install DPP on is my wife's and that isn't gonna happen. Still looking into the USB3 for compatibility with USB2. Probably just get a card reader.

 

[Lee Jay]

USB devices are all backwards compatible. You can plug a USB3 source into a USB2 port, no problem.

 

[Old Sarge]

The latest fly in the ointment is the software release which, from the specs, requires a minimum of Windows 7 to run. Uh-oh, the only computer here that I can install DPP on is my wife's and that isn't gonna happen. Still looking into the USB3 for compatibility with USB2. Probably just get a card reader.

I found that to be a bummer also. My PC and old laptop both have Vista and, because of some legacy programs I would find it hard to do without, I don't intend to upgrade to Windows 8. My Surface Pro 3, recently acquired, runs 8 so I might put DPP on it. But truth be told, I rarely use DPP anyway so it is only a minor bummer at this point in time.