The New EOS [CR3]

[fred_jb]

Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.

I think it is effectively a merger of the 1D and 1Ds pro large body lines, but only in the sense that the next high MP camera probably won't be a 1Ds, and probably won't even be a pro build camera with integral grip. Instead I suspect it will be the successor to the 5D II, albeit with beefed up AF and features compared with that camera.

We might then get a lower end FF/video optimised camera based on the 18MP 1D FF sensor, thus splitting the 5D line.

I wouldn't be surprised if we also got an MF competitor at some point using a new sensor technology and possibly a new lens mount.

Fred

 

[messus]

Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

Well it makes the absolute perfect sense to me, if this is true it's just what I am looking for,
and I will absolutely buy it, if not two of it !!

I am a landscape photographer, which shoot a lot in the dark. I would gladly switch 3mpx down
for improved ISO / SNR / DR ! 12MPX FF (Nikon D3s) is too little for landscapes/studio, but 18MPX FF
would be enough!

I don't need the 61AF points, but I would gladly pay the extra cost of it IF I get a FF with improved
ISO / SNR / DR !

I might not need 12-14fps, but I still would welcome it for my bird photography!
And a camera with these computing capabilites (Dual Digic V?) means this camera is a speed monster!
Which is great in a lot of other scenarios (USB 3.0, remote USB shooting / transfer, 4K video !!!, timelapse photography etc!)

I very much welcome this camera with the given specs, if it is a FF !!

If this camera is only a APS-H, then it will be a huge dissapointment for me!
(e.g. Since I as a landscape photographer need my 24mm 1.4 lens to be 24mm when working)

Bring it on Canon!

 

[GeorgeMaciver]

The Japanese understand honour, and Japanese employees would not bite the hand that feeds them. I'm not surprised at the lack of leaks. Europe may leak like a sieve, but that's part of why it's sinking. I'm looking forward to having in camera HDR as the G12 offers, in a semi pro DSLR, and have started saving.

8)

 

[Redreflex]

i might have entered this website around 30 times today waiting for an update that never comes

You may well be in the majority!

 

[Gothmoth]

The Japanese understand honour, and Japanese employees would not bite the hand that feeds them.

i call that BS....

you mean like olympus employees?
someone in that company (a japanese) has sure company money in his pocket.

http://www.43rumors.com/woodford-says-company-needs-to-be-cleaned-up-huge-23-value-drop-of-olympus-shares/

 

[pedro]

Re: Time is ticking...;-)

it is 19:14 in Switzerland and 01:14 in Singapore...
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
Enjoy the waiting 8)

 

[keithfullermusic]

i'm going to laugh ;D (and cry) :'( when the announcement is for a new elph that does automatic HDRs.

 

[unfocused]

i'm going to laugh ;D (and cry) :'( when the announcement is for a new elph that does automatic HDRs.

I'm still holding out for a new Canon Calculator Mouse.

 

[waving_odd]

If the rumor that availability won't be until March 2012 is correct, they likely wouldn't need to start the production line QC until after the announcement...

Remember this?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/09/september-22-announcement-confusion/

CR guy said "...As mentioned on other sites, “no leaks… no announcements.” That holds true here as well..."

 

[craigkg]

Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.

Well, I think Canon has something up their sleeve. The release of the 5D Mark II really cannibalized the entire lineup and was far more popular than they ever expected which I think is necessitating a radical reshaping of the lineup which I expect will be complete by end of next year. Here is where I see things going:

Flagship Class
Pro landscape and studio camera: Canon 645D
Yes, I think Canon goes digital medium format to regain the 1Ds' top of the line classification. You simply can't do it with more megapixels now. To get the dynamic range, signal to noise and ISO performance people are now expecting out of the top of the line, the only place to go is a larger format. The development of this body and a small set of introductory lenses is probably a partial reason we've seen a dearth of products for a while (the tsunami aside), though I suspect this camera would still have a means of accepting EOS lenses and shooting in a crop mode. Canon has had several lense patents in the last 18 months or so that have been designed with a 645 image circle, which make no sense unless you consider the fact they likely have atleast researched the format if they are not actively developing for its eventual release. I think they start it off at a $10K price point and it falls to $9,000 within 18 months and transforms medium format from being a niche market to a format even within reach of the masses.

Pro wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 1Dx (the camera due tomorrow)
This will be the 16-18MP camera at the start of the thread. The level of performance people have expected from the 1D Mark IV, but with a full frame sensor and a few extra bells and whistles such as perhaps continuous autofocus in video mode. Price point: $7500.

Semi-Pro Class
landscape and studio camera: Canon 5D Mark III
This camera will see a modest bump in megapixels if any with the improvements coming in dynamic range and ISO performance. Will still likely be 4-5 fps range. Most people won't be happy with the improved features and increased price failing to realize how big a leap it was to the Mark II, that the Mark III cannot achieve a similar leap in expectations and. This will be the high megapixel full frame camera and the goto body for those that don't want to buy into the 645 format...which means a bump in price. Price point: $3600-4000 body only

wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 3D
And with its release...RIP 7D. This will not be full frame, but will inherit the APS-H sensor if it is not discontinued. It will have a higher MP count than the 1Dx, but will have a slower frame rate the DR and ISO performance will not be as great. but it will still be better than the 7D. It will be the body for the advanced hobbyists who love the 7D now but purists will groan that it doesn't live up to the legendary mythical 3D moniker. Price point: $2200-2500

Hobbyist/Beginner Class
advanced beginner and hobbyist: Canon 70D
Take the 60D, add a few MP, bump the frame rate .5 fps, make the viewfinder 98% and say hello to the 60D's successor. Price point: $900-1100

beginners/switchers from P&S world: Rebel T4(i)
modest upgrade of current T2i and T3 offerings. Price point: $600-800

 

[J.W.]

Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks

 

[waving_odd]

Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks

You can expect the announcement based on NAT.

NAT = Nikon Announcement Time... ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[htjunkie]

Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.

Well, I think Canon has something up their sleeve. The release of the 5D Mark II really cannibalized the entire lineup and was far more popular than they ever expected which I think is necessitating a radical reshaping of the lineup which I expect will be complete by end of next year. Here is where I see things going:

Flagship Class
Pro landscape and studio camera: Canon 645D
Yes, I think Canon goes digital medium format to regain the 1Ds' top of the line classification. You simply can't do it with more megapixels now. To get the dynamic range, signal to noise and ISO performance people are now expecting out of the top of the line, the only place to go is a larger format. The development of this body and a small set of introductory lenses is probably a partial reason we've seen a dearth of products for a while (the tsunami aside), though I suspect this camera would still have a means of accepting EOS lenses and shooting in a crop mode. Canon has had several lense patents in the last 18 months or so that have been designed with a 645 image circle, which make no sense unless you consider the fact they likely have atleast researched the format if they are not actively developing for its eventual release. I think they start it off at a $10K price point and it falls to $9,000 within 18 months and transforms medium format from being a niche market to a format even within reach of the masses.

Pro wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 1Dx (the camera due tomorrow)
This will be the 16-18MP camera at the start of the thread. The level of performance people have expected from the 1D Mark IV, but with a full frame sensor and a few extra bells and whistles such as perhaps continuous autofocus in video mode. Price point: $7500.

Semi-Pro Class
landscape and studio camera: Canon 5D Mark III
This camera will see a modest bump in megapixels if any with the improvements coming in dynamic range and ISO performance. Will still likely be 4-5 fps range. Most people won't be happy with the improved features and increased price failing to realize how big a leap it was to the Mark II, that the Mark III cannot achieve a similar leap in expectations and. This will be the high megapixel full frame camera and the goto body for those that don't want to buy into the 645 format...which means a bump in price. Price point: $3600-4000 body only

wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 3D
And with its release...RIP 7D. This will not be full frame, but will inherit the APS-H sensor if it is not discontinued. It will have a higher MP count than the 1Dx, but will have a slower frame rate the DR and ISO performance will not be as great. but it will still be better than the 7D. It will be the body for the advanced hobbyists who love the 7D now but purists will groan that it doesn't live up to the legendary mythical 3D moniker. Price point: $2200-2500

Hobbyist/Beginner Class
advanced beginner and hobbyist: Canon 70D
Take the 60D, add a few MP, bump the frame rate .5 fps, make the viewfinder 98% and say hello to the 60D's successor. Price point: $900-1100

beginners/switchers from P&S world: Rebel T4(i)
modest upgrade of current T2i and T3 offerings. Price point: $600-800

Very interesting possible breakdown of their line up. However I see a major flaw in it, at least it leaves me unsatisfied: there is no affordable full frame camera. Hell, the 5D MkII sells for $2,400 right now, I don't see how no other full frame camera would take its place in the near future. Unless you're thinking that they'll continue selling the 5D MkII, but at a slightly lower price.

So, I would add a 6D to your lineup, essentially a 5D MkII with less pro-features, slower frame rate, no video, swivel screen, great DR, for about $2,000. That would appeal to lanscape enthusiasts, and people who want to take great photos of their kids - given the same lens, the resulting "perceived" bokeh will look better on a full frame body that on a crop sensor (since the full frame body will let you place your subject closer to the camera at the same aperture).

 

[J.W.]

Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks

You can expect the announcement based on NAT.

LOL, I'd just like to know if I can wait awake in the night (here it's 10.00 pm) a little bit or sleep over it and find the "surprise-surprise!" tomorrow morning.
To get it short: what time will be in the place where it will be announced?
I'll do the math

 

[keithfullermusic]

i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D? It's price point and features are what makes it so popular. If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one. If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore. They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used. Canon won't get any of that money. Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong. I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits. Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.

 

[htjunkie]

i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D? It's price point and features are what makes it so popular. If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one. If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore. They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used. Canon won't get any of that money. Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong. I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits. Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.

I totally agree. I was saying maybe no video if it can make it affordable. I don't see why Canon would kill the recipe for one of their all-time best sellers. May you be right. 5D mkIII at the same price as the mkII currently, with better everything. I'd buy it.

 

[keithfullermusic]

i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D? It's price point and features are what makes it so popular. If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one. If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore. They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used. Canon won't get any of that money. Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong. I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits. Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.

I totally agree. I was saying maybe no video if it can make it affordable. I don't see why Canon would kill the recipe for one of their all-time best sellers. May you be right. 5D mkIII at the same price as the mkII currently, with better everything. I'd buy it.

Same here - i'd sell a kidney if i didn't have the money for it.

 

[craigkg]

Very interesting possible breakdown of their line up. However I see a major flaw in it, at least it leaves me unsatisfied: there is no affordable full frame camera. Hell, the 5D MkII sells for $2,400 right now, I don't see how no other full frame camera would take its place in the near future. Unless you're thinking that they'll continue selling the 5D MkII, but at a slightly lower price.

So, I would add a 6D to your lineup, essentially a 5D MkII with less pro-features, slower frame rate, no video, swivel screen, great DR, for about $2,000. That would appeal to lanscape enthusiasts, and people who want to take great photos of their kids - given the same lens, the resulting "perceived" bokeh will look better on a full frame body that on a crop sensor (since the full frame body will let you place your subject closer to the camera at the same aperture).

As a current 5D Mark II owner I would agree being dissatisfied with now affordable full frame. I just have a hard time seeing Canon not trying to push people into a higher price point. Sure it will decrease FF sales, but will push people into the "3D" sales, which I'd expect to be quite brisk. If this were to come into fruition, I myself would be hard press to buy the 5D3 upgrade and would probably hang onto my 5D2 until the 645 came down in price. If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one. My assessment isn't a matter of wishful thinking for the products I want to buy, but rather what i think Canon is likely to do. With a FF 1D, they have to take the 1Ds line to a higher level, which I think means they will have to go 645. But they will want to have a higher $$$ FF camera for those that don't want to make the 645 jump and the 5D line is the obvious choice with its already high megapixel count, video features and great image quality. The 5D climbs up the scale in prestige and with that move up comes the higher price. Maybe I'll be wrong and the APS-H will go away completely and the 7D's successor will be full frame at the current 5D mark II's price point. I just know that something has to give in the lineup because the current model breakdown is not sustainable.

 

[htjunkie]

You said it yourself: "If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one. "

There you go. Canon sells you an update to your mkII, and it sells me an upgrade from my 7D.
And reciprocally, if they make a more expensive 5D mkiii, you hang on to your mkII (no sales for Canon), and I can't upgrade my 7D (too expensive for the "99%").

I don't understand your logic.

 

[kirispupis]

I wouldn't be surprised if Canon someday enters MF, but I seriously doubt it would factor into their 35mm SLR plans. The problem with a medium format camera isn't just that an "affordable" one would run about $10k right now. The problem is buying those lenses. Each lens will likely run $2k - $5k (assuming no big telephotos) and only high end studio/fashion photographers will realistically be able to make the jump. This would be well out of the reach of most landscape photographers not named Peter Lik.

Most of the landscape photographers I know would be perfectly happy with a 35mm camera with a high MP count. Many of them shoot on a tripod at ISO 100 so the image quality losses at higher ISO's wouldn't bother them as much.

I do not see a merging of the 1D + 1Ds lines in the near future in terms of having one camera that has both high MP and a high frame rate. The processing power for these large photos just isn't there yet. Of course, I could see Canon release a FF 1D5 with specs similar to those expected, but not release a 1Ds model. Canon may choose to keep the 5D as their high MP camera as many of the 1 series features aren't really needed by landscape photographers. I suspect they would be very happy with a 36 MP 5D3 that has weather sealing and 7 shot bracketing.

I also agree that the next 5D will not change significantly. It will be around the same price and will have more evolutionary changes in terms of more MP and the AF of the 7D. If Canon does add weather sealing and bracketing though, it may be a sign that the 1Ds line is history.