The New EOS [CR3]

[docsmith]

Honestly, haven't we all heard for awhile that the 1D/1Ds lines weren't selling all that well? That the 5DII has become the camera of choice for many professional photographers? And to improve the 7D, aren't you getting close to the quality of the 1D series? Canon has to chase the market. They can't just build this freakin' amazing camera that costs a ton that has a teeny tiny market just because they can. And they have to adjust as the technology evolves to the point that "prosumer" cameras are capable of meeting "professional" needs.

If these are the specs, I suspect that this is more about repositioning all of the camera bodies than simply blindly charging forward with each camera body separately. For example, 1DsIV: specs listed, amazing DR/ISO; 5DIII: 30+ MP, average AF, good DR/ISO; 7DII: replaces 1D series and 7D series? This gets blurry to me as to if this is still a "prosumer" camera. But I think my point is that as the technology is evolving "prosumer" cameras are getting so good, they will likely be able to meet "professional" needs. The pro I know shoots Nikon but mostly uses D300s....they only have one or 2 D3 bodies.

 

[thepancakeman]

It does intrigue me that this site has been pretty replete with "it's not about the pixels" posts, but now all the sudden, it's "where's the pixels?!?" ???

 

[Gothmoth]

<li>1D/1Ds line is about to be amalgamated. (Name Unknown)</li>
<li>Full Frame</li>
<li>18mp</li>

can´t see that happen.

1D/1Ds to be amalgamated..... yep could be.
new camera with 18 MP fullframe sensor... yep could be.

but... 1Ds with 18 MP bayer sensor... that would REALLY REALLY suprise me!!!

The Foveon technology means that no color interpolation is required, but color interpolation does not reduce spatial resolution.

but other things on a bayer sensor do.
as far as i have read a bayer sensor needs about 1.8-2.4 times the photosites to have the same spatial resolution then a foveon sensor.

4.7 million potosites on a foveon sensor are roughly equal to 10-11 million photosites on a bayer senor (spatial resolution).

 

[steven63]

I'm reminded of Tim the tool man doing his grunt over a fine piece of equipment when I read about everybody wanting more than 18 mpx.

18 mpx, FF, 12 fps, 61 FP (all cross type?) and assuming improved ISO capabilities (I'm confident of it) would be an amazing camera. It really, really isn't about the mpx (imo).

I'd buy this camera in a heart beat with those listed specs. And yeah, I'd to the grunt ;D.

 

[J-Man]

There has been a lot of feedback that Canon sensors have been too noisy, and I agree, Nikon stole a ton of photogs from Canon because of their lower noise, and the AF debacle didn't help any.
While I'd like to see a Foveon type sensor in the 1series, I don't think it will be in this body, my money is on the 3D/5DIII,
what I do expect is a luminance pixel to add dynamic range to the sensor, and in body processing to tone-map the jpg output. So it's possible there are over 18mp on chip, but there may be a resulting resolution reduction in the final output.

 

[Tinnunculus]

Yes, I also guess its going to be foveon-type 18MPix...and maybe thats why nikon has to jump to a 36 MPix bayer-pattern sensor in the expected D800-to match the foveon in terms of resolution.

What makes you think an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will match a 36 MP traditional sensor in terms of resolution? 18 MP is half of 36 MP, so an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will have half the spatial resolution of a 36 MP sensor. The Foveon technology means that no color interpolation is required, but color interpolation does not reduce spatial resolution.

I meant physical resolution, like lines per picture width, or sharpness of the image...when you look at a bayer-based photo at 100%, its usually not sharp from pixel to pixel...but foveon can see a hair one pixel thin, which fades out from view or curves without moire or sharpening artefacts. It looks more natural...but its hard to say how a 36MPix bayer image downsampled to 18 looks compared to the foveon original, or how upsampled foveon compares to double MPix bayer. And whether foveon would have more DR and produce less noise than its, lets call it, bayer counterpart? Interesting, if its so

 

[Gothmoth]

I meant physical resolution, like lines per picture width, or sharpness of the image...when you look at a bayer-based photo at 100%, its usually not sharp from pixel to pixel

well thats what he meant too....

Spatial resolution

The measure of how closely lines can be resolved in an image is called spatial resolution, and it depends on properties of the system creating the image, not just the pixel resolution in pixels per inch (ppi). For practical purposes the clarity of the image is decided by its spatial resolution, not the number of pixels in an image. In effect, spatial resolution refers to the number of independent pixel values per unit length.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution


but as i wrote before, you are somewhat right.
resolution of a bayer sensor is decreased. because of agressive AA filters etc.
so less photosites on a foveon sensor can look sharper then more photosites on a bayer sensor.

 

[kubelik]

If this is the 1d/ids series specs... I hate to see the 5d specs... maybe the 5d mark II is starting to look more appealing... but wont believe a word till i read the specs on the press release...

why "hate to see the 5d specs"? this probably means Canon is going to have the 5D3 even more directly specialized on landscape photography, with a very high MP count, so that there is very clear differentiation between the 1-series and the 5-series.

 

[traveller]

It's strange, over on NR there are a lot of people moaning that 36MP is too many. Therefore if 18MP is too few, should we assume that 27MP is the oprimum point?!

 

[Loswr]

but as i wrote before, you are somewhat right.
resolution of a bayer sensor is decreased. because of agressive AA filters etc.
so less photosites on a foveon sensor can look sharper then more photosites on a bayer sensor.

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[Gothmoth]

what if canon got rid of the physical AA filter?

would a dual digi v be fast enough to do it in software?

i think a 18MP sensor without AA filter could outperfom a 21MP 5D MK2 in spatial resolution.

 

[traveller]

I've just been reviewing the old 1D Mk4 & 7D rumours in the weeks prior to their announcements. It is surprising just how much rubbish was sent to CR quite late in the day, as well as how many "nearly-but-not-quite" spec lists with a couple of key details wrong (was this deliberate misinformation from Canon, or simply "me too" attention seekers?). There were also quite a few spot on sources (lenses in particular), but I remember that at the time, it was difficult to pick these from the background noise. The 1D Mk4 was released on 19th October 2009, the day before Canon celebrated 50 years of SLRs. Coincidence? We'll find out on Tuesday..

 

[Smith]

What is the point in announcing a product that won't be available for another 5 months ? Add another month before retail gets a few units trickling in and another three months to work out the bugs and this is looking like a product that won't be ready for primetime until Q3 of 2012.

 

[Gothmoth]

What is the point in announcing a product that won't be available for another 5 months ? Add another month before retail gets a few units trickling in and another three months to work out the bugs and this is looking like a product that won't be ready for primetime until Q3 of 2012.

if it is a DSLR (not a magical mirrorless ) i think it will be ready for london 2012.

 

[Justin]

Honestly, at this point I just want Canon to release something. But there a few interesting suggestions on the board. Including mirrorless and no AA or weakened AA, perhaps. So I take back what I said earlier about no way on this spec.

If this thing comes out as a small bodied full frame mirrorless I'm in.

If Canon removes the AA low pass filter? I'm intrigued.

But if it's a big honking 1D sized body with a ff sensor then who cares. I remember when Canon rushed out the 1D4 to have something to release when the D3s hit. Maybe this is Canon's do over for that miscalculation. Still I think many people who buy a 1D4 like it for what it is. Even though it's a compromise.

I guess my hopes are still high for something innovative. Seriously sounds like a modest addition to the Canon lineup, one that doesn't really even fit.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Don't expect a foveon sensor, the cost of FF would be out of this world, look at the price of the SD1 crop camera. The sensor is very difficult to make, extreme low yield, and lots of other image compromises.

I expect it to be a super low ISO sports camera to best the D3s, not a studio camera. The 50mp 1Ds camera will appear before next summer, and maybe on November 3rd.

5D MK II will match the D800. Canon knows what is coming, and willl have something similar.

Personally, I'd be very interested in a 18mp super low light high ISO camera, and if it is in the $5,000 range, I'd order it on day 1. My 5D MK II is good at low light, bit 1-1/2 - 2 stops better would be amazing.

 

[AdamJ]

The strategy makes sense to me. Aim the amalgamated 1D at those professionals - sports and photojournalists - who really benefit from the bomb-proof build, who often have several 1D's clonking together around their waist as they run to take position for the next money-shot.

Spec the 5DIII to cement its position as the studio / wedding / landscape camera of choice, replacing the 1DSIII, the bomb-proof build of which is, I suspect, largely wasted in this segment.

 

[Gothmoth]

Don't expect a foveon sensor, the cost of FF would be out of this world, look at the price of the SD1 crop camera. The sensor is very difficult to make, extreme low yield, and lots of other image compromises.

but that´s foveon.. canon does not build foveon sensors.
canon builds canon sensors.

so it´s hard to predict as nobody has seen that "foveon like" canon sensor yet.. beside a few canon guys.. if it exist at all yet.

 

[dgsphto]

This is just a guess but I think this is the new 3D pro body. The 1D series are being renamed to 3D.

The 5Dmk3 will see a replacement announcement late this year with a 32 to 36MP sensor and release early next year. A pro body 5Dmk3 will be the new 1Dsmk4 which will drop the "s" and be just 1D4 or something.

Basically this is what Ithink the Canon line up will look like:
* New 1D4 (Basically a pro 1Dsmk4) with 32 to 36MP sensor and the non-pro version being 5Dmk3.
* 3D (The new Pro model being announced next week) with the non-pro version being called 6D.

7D might be eventually either be EOL-ed because of the overlap with the 6D as above; OR, will continue as a consumer APS-C version of the 6D spec.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

I think it should be noted that if you go to Canon's Direct Online Store the highest level DSLR you can buy is the 1D Mark IV. There's no 1D Mark III or 1Ds Mark III. So either that points to a 1D Mark V, a 1Ds Mark IV or the rumored merging of the 1 series cameras. Of course this is all purely speculation:
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategorySort_10051_10051_-1_12164_highPrice_list