Nikon officially announced the Z 8, which is aimed squarely at the Canon EOS R5

[unfocused]

I was super suspect of the rumors... but they did materialize. IMO, this solidly puts this body as the best deal/body in the industry. The Z9 isn't a match to the R5 AF-wise (let alone the R3), but it doesn't have to be the best in every category as long as it is still good. Its not as fast as the A1, but again it doesn't have to win everywhere if it costs $2500 less.

I'm still thinking the profit margin has to be thin on this one, so availability may be scant for a good while. But if they can meet some of the demand, I think this will cause the market to completely shift. I wonder if Canon changed direction when they heard what Nikon was doing and scrapped the R5 II, and decided to throw updates at the old camera until they sort out the sensor and pricing.

Also seems like it kills any thought of a A9 III. All and all, Nikon is taking up the disruptor mantle and running with it.

Sorry, but I don't think I understand your comments. How can this be "the best deal/body in the industry" and not be "a match to the R5 AF-wise (let alone the R3)." It's the same price as the R5 at introduction and considerably more expensive than the current R5, but seems to basically mirror the R5's specifications. Why does the profit margin "has to be thin" when, again, it's the same price as what Canon introduced the R5 at?

It's kind of delusional to suggest that Canon "changed direction when they heard what Nikon was doing and scrapped the R5II." There was no R5II to scrap, because it's not due for an update for another year (based on Canon's normal refresh cycle.) And, why would Canon need to scrap anything when Nikon is basically releasing an R5, three years later than Canon?

Finally, how is releasing an R5 clone at the same price as the original R5 "taking up the disruptor mantle and running with it"?

Yes, this is a nice camera for Nikon shooters and it's overdue. It should help Nikon maintain its market position and may even help it claw back some customers who moved to Sony. Mostly though, it's probably going to encourage people already in the Nikon camp who have been accumulating savings waiting for a competitor to the R5 to pull the trigger.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

One that we like is the ability to charge batteries inside the grip when it's not attached to the camera

The BG-E22 for the EOS R does that as well. How is this a new nice feature?

That was actually one of the main reason I took the BG on all of my trips. I recently sold it though because I got a good value (only lost 10 € after using it two years) and I believe accessories for the R will lose their value pretty fast once the R8 really starts selling.

 

[MiJax]

Why? I don't get your argumentation.
Why not just buy an R5?


Err... what? Is your "sarc" mode on?

No sarcasm. The R5 losses out to the Z8's sensor. Hands down, that changes everything for action photography. Granted, if you only shoot portraits, landscape, and still life there is no need to compare them and you can disregard anything I say from here. The R5 will be cheaper and great for those uses. But in the action photography realm, fast sensors matter. The R5 will have better AF which taints the action comparison a little, but the Z8 will still be really good, so that's not a deal breaker. But the fast sensor puts it in on another level. That's the biggest reason to buy an A1 over an R5. IIRC from the Z9, the fast sensor enables a higher bit depth (14 bit compressed) at high speed capture (meaning better DR at high speed capture). The fast sensor gives you the ability to use silent capture and not introduce rolling shutter. Also, not having a mechanical shutter eliminates a significant failure point. If the Z8 gets the Z9 120fps jpeg mode that's actually surprisingly more useful than it seems, especially considering they give you AF with it unlike other manufacturers locked off versions.

If it has the Z9 buffer performance, that sensor will again show its worth. The R5 will not be able to match the buffer on the Z8 with fast cards. Granted, the cRAW buffer is still pretty good.

I believe the R5 will win in low light. So that is a big plus for the R5.

The R5 will win in weight as well. The Z9 and Z8 are both ultra chunky.

But again for action photography, a fast sensor is a big deal. While the R5 is nearly blackout free, the Z9 architecture is officially blackout free. Not that its hard to use the R5, just that its easier to use the Z9, where I expect the Z8 to be the same.

Lastly, on the action photography side, Nikon lens offerings have been eye opening. Canon's 100-300 was a great idea (although not for me), but Canon isn't really ahead of the game. Nikon's introduction of TC integrated primes is huge, and IMO, the only good reason to replace these big expensive lenses if you have a recent version. Unfortunately, Canon looks to have neglected the tech they brought out first in this area.

All in all, I believe this body will shift the market and start a sensor conversion Canon wasn't likely wanting to make yet. The R5 is still an excellent camera, but its past dominance was predicated on its value, which largely saw it standing toe to toe with cameras that were $2000+ more expensive and comparing well even if the sensor's speed held it back. Now, Nikon has brought a body that does what the R5 did, but needs no exceptions for the sensor, and is literally a direct 1 to 1 match for the flagships at pro-sumer costs. Honestly, this is going to be felt in the pro-sumer market ($3,500-4500) and the top end pro market.

 

[unfocused]

The R5’s MSRP is only $100 less than this, yes there’s a rebate on it right now but I feel like it’s unfair to factor that in to the equation considering it will probably be $3899 again before the end of the month...

Highly unlikely. Canon has a history of semi-permanent rebates once they start down that path. The pattern got disrupted during the pandemic, but it seems we are back to "normal" now. When the rebates expire, wait about a week and there will be new ones that maintain the same pricing structure. That's just how Canon works.

 

[koenkooi]

Highly unlikely. Canon has a history of semi-permanent rebates once they start down that path. The pattern got disrupted during the pandemic, but it seems we are back to "normal" now. When the rebates expire, wait about a week and there will be new ones that maintain the same pricing structure. That's just how Canon works.

"Buy now before the Cutesy Spring campaign ends!!!!"
"Introducing the Hot Summer campaign!!!"

If you are patient, you can get lucky by having 2 campaigns overlap, e.g. an extra trade-in discount.

 

[MiJax]

Sorry, but I don't think I understand your comments. How can this be "the best deal/body in the industry" and not be "a match to the R5 AF-wise (let alone the R3)." It's the same price as the R5 at introduction and considerably more expensive than the current R5, but seems to basically mirror the R5's specifications. Why does the profit margin "has to be thin" when, again, it's the same price as what Canon introduced the R5 at?

It's kind of delusional to suggest that Canon "changed direction when they heard what Nikon was doing and scrapped the R5II." There was no R5II to scrap, because it's not due for an update for another year (based on Canon's normal refresh cycle.) And, why would Canon need to scrap anything when Nikon is basically releasing an R5, three years later than Canon?

Finally, how is releasing an R5 clone at the same price as the original R5 "taking up the disruptor mantle and running with it"?

Yes, this is a nice camera for Nikon shooters and it's overdue. It should help Nikon maintain its market position and may even help it claw back some customers who moved to Sony. Mostly though, it's probably going to encourage people already in the Nikon camp who have been accumulating savings waiting for a competitor to the R5 to pull the trigger.

The R5 was great, but used conventional sensor tech. A stacked sensor cost more money. If Nikon brings a camera to market with a more expensive sensor to manufacture (or buy in their case) at the same or near same cost, they have done something special on the cost front.

I don't think its "delusional" to suspect that Canon may be re-thinking there update cycle. I actually think its odd the Canon is rumored to be throwing a number of updates at an older body. This is completely outside of the trend for Canon. And note, scrapping doesn't infer clean sheet, just looking at its plan and making sure it still relevant and setting the necessary changes.

If you really think its a clone, you are missing the gorilla in the room. Additionally, I wholeheartedly see this doing a lot more than just "maintain(ing) its market position". This camera is going to set the tone for this segment of the market.

 

[neuroanatomist]

"Buy now before the Cutesy Spring campaign ends!!!!"
"Introducing the Hot Summer campaign!!!"

If you are patient, you can get lucky by having 2 campaigns overlap, e.g. an extra trade-in discount.

Just got an email from Canon USA promoting $200/400/600 off if you buy 1/2/3 lenses along with a camera.

 

[neuroanatomist]

But in the action photography realm, fast sensors matter. The R5 will have better AF which taints the action comparison a little, but the Z8 will still be really good, so that's not a deal breaker. But the fast sensor puts it in on another level. That's the biggest reason to buy an A1 over an R5. IIRC from the Z9, the fast sensor enables a higher bit depth (14 bit compressed) at high speed capture (meaning better DR at high speed capture).

Sure, sure. More DR in a RAW image is far more important for action photography than having your subject in focus.

 

[entoman]

You will not get a significant gain in DR at 1600-3200 - the R5 is knocking on the door of the theoretical maximum for the photon flux there.

If that's the case, then there seems like very little point in me considering another camera. The R5 does just about everything I need a camera to do, and the only major benefit to me of upgrading would have been to get a camera with more DR in the ISO 1600-3200 range. Sure, "better" cameras will come along, with faster sensors, better AF, pre-capture etc, but for me those benefits aren't enough to warrant the cost of a new body, let alone the cost of switching brands. Still, it's fun looking at all the new gear.

 

[Del Paso]

Just got an email from Canon USA promoting $200/400/600 off if you buy 1/2/3 lenses along with a camera.

Compared to Canon Europe, or worse, Canon UK, Canon USA looks like a welfare organization.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

Compared to Canon Europe, or worse, Canon UK, Canon USA looks like a welfare organization.

It sure does...
There is always about 10% premium in Germany and sometimes it is up to 30-35%.

Most of the promotions are kind of dull, too. The "lense trade-in" 200 € rebate when you buy a new lens, for example. When you sell your lens on eBay, you actually get more money compared to those "lens trade-in" offering because the retailers will only pay a few bucks because they want to cash in, too. They can't pay because they have to make money of a second-hand sale...
I'd rather have instant rebates...but what can you do? Right, sit and wait patiently, don't overpay, buy in the US and or maybe eventually get a used copy.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

Compared to Canon Europe, or worse, Canon UK, Canon USA looks like a welfare organization.

The price difference on the RF 100-300mm F2.8 would pay for:
- flights for my girlfriend and me
- two week rental car and
- gas money
That's insane

Even getting the RF 100-500mm and another L lense will pay for at least one flight, if you're lucky it'll pay for both flights.

 

[MiJax]

Sure, sure. More DR in a RAW image is far more important for action photography than having your subject in focus.

Sure, sure.... Assuming a $4,000 camera can't focus.

 

[LSXPhotog]

I feel that camera companies are doing a very poor job educating consumers about the significance of stacked sensors. I’m reading comments here and all over the internet that understatement this feature…it’s not something to sleep on and is a major advantage over the R5.

The best news about the Z 8 is what it means for the camera industry. It’s now the cheapest body with a stacked full-frame sensor. It’s also predictable that it will influence the next cameras from Canon and Sony in this segment.

I’m also shocked at how TALL the camera becomes with a grip attached…that’s embarrassing for Nikon. LOL jk

 

[Czardoom]

I agree, I'm a little baffled by this new Nikon.
I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about.
To me it looks like Nikon have placed a similar camera to the Canon R5, at 1$K expensive and 3 years late.
I'm not seeing much benefit over the Canon and the Canon is due for replacement...and it's cheaper...and it's been around for a while....and...it's very similar specced.

Stacked sensor. That alone makes it NOT similarly spec'd. $500 less than the next cheapest stacked FF sensor, I believe (the A9 II). Not 1$K more expensive, just $100 more than the R5 launch price which is even more impressive given the inflation rate over the past 3 years. This looks like a great camera.

 

[entoman]

I’m also shocked at how TALL the camera becomes with a grip attached…that’s embarrassing for Nikon. LOL jk

Yes, that grip is nuts. It makes the ZED 8 gargantuan, and by the time you've bought it and a couple of batteries, you may as well just spend a bit extra and get the ZED 9. I honestly can't see many people buying the grip, but of course if they didn't offer one, everyone and his uncle would be whinging.

 

[entoman]

Stacked sensor. That alone makes it NOT similarly spec'd. $500 less than the next cheapest stacked FF sensor, I believe (the A9 II). Not 1$K more expensive, just $100 more than the R5 launch price which is even more impressive given the inflation rate over the past 3 years. This looks like a great camera.

The importance of a stacked sensor really depends on what type of photography one does.
For sports shooters, especially any kind of ball game, it's a huge benefit.
For the rest of us, probably not.

 

[Czardoom]

Sure, sure.... Assuming a $4,000 camera can't focus.

From the various reviews i have seen of the Z9 from folks like Jan Wegener and others, the Z9's AF is comparable to the best from Canon and Sony, BUT it is more complex and takes a bit more customization and practice. I wold ignore the 1st day reviews from Jared and anybody else as they usually don't take the time to really understand how to use any new camera. So I agree, I don't think focus will be an issue. If it truly perfoms like a Z9, than this should be a fantastic camera based on all the feedback I have seen online from actual Z9 users.

 

[AlanF]

If that's the case, then there seems like very little point in me considering another camera. The R5 does just about everything I need a camera to do, and the only major benefit to me of upgrading would have been to get a camera with more DR in the ISO 1600-3200 range. Sure, "better" cameras will come along, with faster sensors, better AF, pre-capture etc, but for me those benefits aren't enough to warrant the cost of a new body, let alone the cost of switching brands. Still, it's fun looking at all the new gear.

Same with me. I am currently not limited by my gear - my R5/RF100-500mm/RF100-400mm are allowing me to do all the BIF/DIF I want. I am sure I would be happy with the Z8, and Nikon makes some great lenses but the Canon ones fit better my needs for weight and size as well as quality.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Sure, sure.... Assuming a $4,000 camera can't focus.

Well, maybe Fro Doesn't Really Know Photo All That Well, but he certainly shows some examples of significant fails with the Z8 AF in situations where there should not be issues. YMMV, and @Czardoom has a good point about day 1 reviews (although Polin mentions similar problems with the Z9 AF).