It looks like Nikon is targeting the Canon EOS R5 with the upcoming Nikon Z 8

[EOS 4 Life]

Nothing wrong with product segmentation, it makes it easier for buyers to decide which model to get, it produces better pricing structure, and it sells more cameras, which is good for Nikon and in the long term good for their customers.

Some people seem to want there to be cameras at every price point but all of them be exactly the same.

 

[David - Sydney]

It is supposedly targeting DSLR users so the size makes sense.

True but Sony's bodies are much smaller and their users appear to be happy with the size. The R5 is smaller than the 5Div which is fine for me so size isn't everything

 

[neuroanatomist]

Some people seem to want there to be cameras at every price point but all of them be exactly the same.

More specifically, some people want there to be cameras at a low price point with all the features found in cameras at a high price point. Go figure...

 

[neuroanatomist]

True but Sony's bodies are much smaller and their users appear to be happy with the size.

Ergonomics seem to be among the most prevalent complaints regarding Sony cameras.

 

[shadowsports]

A class by themselves. The "whatchamacallit". Hurts just looking at it.

 

[AlanF]

It is supposedly targeting DSLR users so the size makes sense.

Nikon isn't as sure-footed as Canon in its marketing. Canon supposedly aimed the R6II at DSLR users, and I like its size.

 

[entoman]

True but Sony's bodies are much smaller and their users appear to be happy with the size.

There are a great many people who consider Sony cameras to be much *too* small, with cramped controls and fingers squished between the grip and the lens. I could live with one, but I prefer cameras that are larger, less cramped and more comfortable to use for extended periods. OM Systems OM 1 is only fractionally larger, but in my hands feels a lot more comfortable to hold and operate.

The R5 is smaller than the 5Div which is fine for me so size isn't everything

I own the R5 and the 5DMkiv. The R5 is comfortable to hold and easy to carry, but I prefer the bulkier grip of the 5DMkiv, which feels more secure when carrying the camera with my shooting hand (at the expense of extra weight).

Nikon's pro-level bodies have always felt quite bulky to me. They have a very utilitarian feel which you either like or don't like. The D850 was a monster. The Z9 is a dragon-slaying beast. The Z8 is a mini-Z9 which appears to do almost everything that it's big brother can do, but with a lighter (polycarbonate?) shell. It will undoubtedly be very competitively priced. A clear winner for Nikon users, but not a camera that would tempt me away from Canon.

 

[AlanF]

There are a great many people who consider Sony cameras to be much *too* small, with cramped controls and fingers squished between the grip and the lens. I could live with one, but I prefer cameras that are larger, less cramped and more comfortable to use for extended periods. OM Systems OM 1 is only fractionally larger, but in my hands feels a lot more comfortable to hold and operate.

Is that the Sony A1 you are comparing with?

 

[entoman]

Is that the Sony A1 you are comparing with?

No, I've never used a Sony A1. I was comparing the A7RV with the OM 1, both of which I've played with. The Sony is taller but the OM is wider, which I think is more relevant in terms of how cramped the controls can get. I don't get my fingers squished with the OM, and to me it just feels more comfortable to hold and use. I know a lot of people (mostly birders) who are very happy with the A9 and A1 - ergonomics are very much a personal thing, and a lot of folk will in any case strike a balance by "forgiving" ergonomic issues in order to benefit from arguably superior AF and lens choice.

 

[cohenfive]

The target isn't the R5. This camera leaves the R5 in the dust. The Z8 is the mirrorless D850 and Canon had better look out. The Z8 is what the R5ii needs to be, and canon is now late. If you recall, the d850 was the best all around and for a couple of years nikon took market share. With their innovative long primes and now the z8, I may think about heading back. At least Canon now has a confimed target to hit. I am being a bit dramatic, but between no R1 and no R5ii until probably next year, people might be moving back to nikon and that could hurt Canon for years.

 

[neuroanatomist]

If you recall, the d850 was the best all around and for a couple of years nikon took market share.

If you believe the D850 was the best all around camera, that's fine – there is no objective definition of 'best', and personal definitions differ widely. However, If you recall that Nikon 'took market share', you may want to have your cognitive abilities tested.

Nikon's annual share of the global camera market:

• 2016 – 25.5%
• 2017 – 24.9%
• 2018 – 20.2%
• 2019 – 18.6%
• 2020 – 13.7%
• 2021 – 11.3%

The D850 launched in 3Q17 and from that point forward Nikon's market share began plummeting. I'm not suggesting the D850 was the cause of that decline, but clearly Nikon did not 'take market share for a couple of years' after it was introduced – quite the opposite.

 

[entoman]

The target isn't the R5. This camera leaves the R5 in the dust. The Z8 is the mirrorless D850 and Canon had better look out. The Z8 is what the R5ii needs to be, and canon is now late.

Nikon cameras have usually had higher specifications and a lower price than their nearest equivalent in the Canon range since way back. Yet they've lost market share quite dramatically, whereas Canon and Sony have gained.

I have great admiration for Nikon's cameras, and ideally I'd like to see all of the Big Three brands have a roughly equal share of the market. They all deserve it, and we're incredibly lucky to have access to such remarkable tools at relatively affordable prices.

I don't think your "threat" to switch to Nikon will worry Canon in the least. The successor to the R5 will probably have inferior specification to the Z8, but will likely still outsell it by a considerable margin. People just prefer Canons. Why, I'm not sure. But they do.

 

[cohenfive]

I think The stats on market share include a lot more than Slr market.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I think The stats on market share include a lot more than Slr market.

You can think whatever you want, the market share percentages I posted are IDC data for 'system cameras', i.e. ILCs (DSLR + mirrorless). Those data are separate from 'fixed lens compact cameras' (P&S). In 2018, DSLRs comprised ~60% of the ILC market.

Take a step back, though. For the ILC market at that point, 85-90% of the cameras sold were APS-C. Any way you slice the pie, a single model of a FF camera is not going to have a meaningful impact on market share. Well, that's not quite true – I would agree that the D850 enabled to Nikon to increase their 'market share among full frame ILCs with the numeral 8 in the model identifier'.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

 

[SHAMwow]

The target isn't the R5. This camera leaves the R5 in the dust. The Z8 is the mirrorless D850 and Canon had better look out. The Z8 is what the R5ii needs to be, and canon is now late. If you recall, the d850 was the best all around and for a couple of years nikon took market share. With their innovative long primes and now the z8, I may think about heading back. At least Canon now has a confimed target to hit. I am being a bit dramatic, but between no R1 and no R5ii until probably next year, people might be moving back to nikon and that could hurt Canon for years.

How can you guys say Canon better look out when they haven't even release the equivalent to this? Literally all the latest RF bodies have left the completion in the dust. We're literally the leaders. A lot of you seem like you're stuck in the 5D IV days of Canon. We've been out of that for a couple years.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

The Z8 is the mirrorless D850 and Canon had better look out.

Remember when the D850 put Canon out of business?
I sure don't.

 

[AlanF]

The target isn't the R5. This camera leaves the R5 in the dust.

What complate and utter garbage! First of all the camera isn’t out yet so there no evidence on which to base that comment. Second, the Z9 is hardly ahead of the R5 according to those whom I trust who have used both, and the Z8 is hardly likely to leave the Z9 in the dust.

 

[entoman]

What complate and utter garbage! First of all the camera isn’t out yet so there no evidence on which to base that comment. Second, the Z9 is hardly ahead of the R5 according to those whom I trust who have used both, and the Z8 is hardly likely to leave the Z9 in the dust.

I think we're feeding a troll...

 

[cohenfive]

You can think whatever you want, the market share percentages I posted are IDC data for 'system cameras', i.e. ILCs (DSLR + mirrorless). Those data are separate from 'fixed lens compact cameras' (P&S). In 2018, DSLRs comprised ~60% of the ILC market.

Take a step back, though. For the ILC market at that point, 85-90% of the cameras sold were APS-C. Any way you slice the pie, a single model of a FF camera is not going to have a meaningful impact on market share. Well, that's not quite true – I would agree that the D850 enabled to Nikon to increase their 'market share among full frame ILCs with the numeral 8 in the model identifier'.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

Thank you me lord....

You may be right on the broad stats. The d850 was the best all around dslr, that is pretty much an acknowledged fact. The z8 goes way beyond the r5, that will become a fact in about a week. Some people will move from Canon and Sony to nikon. Whether it changes market share at that end of the market remains to be seen.

 

[neuroanatomist]

fact

fact noun /fækt/
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists

Just FYI, since evidently you are unaware.

[/troll-feeding]