Some Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR2]

[SUNDOG04]

I like my 6D, use it for landscape and nature work. Don't own a longer telephoto lens to do birds and If I did I would go for a 5DIV. But affording that is too expensive for me.

My only dislike is the focusing. Center point excellent. If I am laying on my belly taking closeups of snakes and salamanders with macro lens, I rely on no-center points for focusing and not re-composing and not live view with manual focus. Even under those conditions, auto-focusing usually works, but sometimes not.

I could care less about wifi or GPS, but that is just me.

I like the size, not too heavy, and the simplicity. Biggest improvement needs to be the focusing (at least for my purposes) and, obviously that will be improved.

 

[jeffa4444]

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

Sure, the 6D sold well, but consider the 6D did not retain it's initial asking price nearly as well as other cameras it sells. That's not 'proof' the 6D AF is a problem, so much as a testament that the camera is on aggregate less sexy than it could be, that other products offer more value in comparison, etc.

And the last time Canon underpegged an AF system on a FF rig -- the 5D2 -- they listened to their customers and improved it considerably. Though they are different class-level products, there are parallels between the 5D2, 7D1 and 6D1 AF situation -- people want more and Canon gave it to them with the next model. So I expect Canon to make a nontrivial AF upgrade with the 6D2.

- A

The worst camera for retaining its initial asking price is the 7D MKII given its the top of the range crop camera its very close to the price of the 80D which whilst newer is not seen as a pro camera.
The 6D used mainly older technology even at launch aside from the sensor itself so the R&D costs were lower and they could likely afford to see a bigger price drop.
Canon has positioned the 5D MKIV higher than the MKIII and both the 5DS / 5DSr have dropped far less since their launch than the 5D MKIII did. My take is Canon will try to push the pricing up on the 6D MKII and try & retain a better price longer term but it can only do that if the specification justifies the initial increase and keeping it close to launch pricing.

 

[neuroanatomist]

But even mid-level crop rigs like the 80D got 1/8000 shutter, so one expects the 6D2 to get it as well.

Sync speed is all over the map for Canon:

1D series = 1/250
5D series = 1/200
6D1 = 1/180
7D series / XXD = 1/250 (Why?! Because crop needs faster shutter speeds?)

My guess is the 6D2 will be 1/180 again as a petty nerf to the 5D4.

The Xsync is the fastest shutter speed at which the sensor is fully exposed, in other words when the first curtain completes its traverse before the second curtain starts moving. Smaller sensors mean less distance to travel, and more robust shutters can move the curtains faster, both of which translate to higher Xsync speeds. So, while they may appear to be 'all over the map', the speeds are actually quite logical given the sensor sizes and shutter properties.

For FF, the 1-series has a more powerful shutter motor than the 5-series, so even though both achieve the same max shutter speed (1/8000 s), the 1-series has a faster Xsync. The 6D has a weaker shutter motor that can only achieve 1/4000 s, and it's Xsync is correspondingly slower. The 1DIV has a 1/300 s Xsync because of its smaller APS-H sensor (the original 1D had 1/500 s, possible because of the CCD sensor).

The xxD line has had 1/8000 s max back to the 20D, and a 1/250 s Xsync to go with it. But the 1300D/T6 has a 1/4000 s max, and a 1/200 s Xsync.

So, if the 6DII has a 1/4000 s max, it'll remain at 1/180 s, and if they bump it to 1/8000 s, it will also get a 1/200 s Xsync.

 

[Luds34]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

 

[K]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.

Panasonic market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010 - 38.7%
2011 - 29.3%
2012 - 23.3%
2013 - 14.2%
2014 - 11.9%
2015 - negligible, below top 3
2016 - negligible, below top 3

Canon market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010-2014 - negligible, below top 3
2015 - 13.6%
2016 - 18.5%

Hmmm... Looks like 4k video in GH4, GH5 ain't helping Panasonic. So, tell me again, who is perishing?

I believe this phenomenon is not only due to Canon being recognized as a serious camera and optics (imaging) company, whereas Panasonic is an electronic company that makes everything including microwave ovens - and the fact that Canon has more lenses and this and that...

BUT...the internet plays a role. I believe that some manufacturers are actually using the "consensus" on the web, particularly Youtube to form a view of the market place. They cater features and specs to them.

The ONLY place I hear people rave about how great the GH is, is on Youtube. By whom? By Vloggers and Youtube Partners with channels. That's it. And why? Because of the video capability. How it works for them in their home studio. This is a small minority of the market, but one that gets a far, far disproportionate voice in the perception of the camera and video world.

This is the power of media. A few voices can appear to be the voice of millions.

This does not translate into what most everyday people and camera consumers want or need.

Consumers VOTE with their wallets, always. And almost always by their needs, not what some company is trying to sell them. It's also why cell phone cameras dominate. Meets most people's needs for photos and video.

 

[jeffa4444]

There is another factor that could suggest moving the 6D MKII to being an 80D with a full-frame sensor and thus moving up the pricing to where the outgoing price of the 5D MKIII was will allow room for a FF version of say the 760D (Rebel T6s) as the entry level without weather sealing or part metal body etc.
That may go someway to explaining the rumoured 77D (sitting under the 80D) and thus its FF equivalent).

 

[zim]

My take is:

* 28 MP.
* A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
* DR as 5D4 (same tech in CMOS censor)
* DPAF
* Stupid DualRAW ver. 1.2
* DIGIC7 -> here we can observe a few new software tricks and ideas due to the new CPU functions encoded
* Tilt 3.2" or 3" screen (I bet on 3" due to smaller body)
* Single card reader (this is an entry level FF, remember?)
* Plastic-is-fantastic body
* 5 fps
* Wifi
* GPS (bonus.... eventually, but I bet there'll be)
* same battery as in 5D4
* 2000 $, €, £.

-> No 4K!

Nothing more, nothing less. A little bit higher than the previous one as promised. But not enough to cannibalize 5D4.

I think that looks pretty accurate

______________________________________________
Re the AF, the original 9 point AF was not a mistake by Canon in any way shape or form It gave them wiggle room for an upgrade path that wouldn't catch up with any other camera in their own line up any time soon. A 19pt system all cross type -3ev and f8 on centre point wouldn't surprise me

 

[ahsanford]

I agree, I'd love to see 1/8000 too. No, the sync speed is very logical. The aps-c sensor is smaller - therefore the shutter doesn't have to travel as fast to sync. Take a flash shot at 1/250 on the 6D and I'm willing to bet you'll have at least an aps-c sized section of the sensor illuminated.

Edit: Thought I might affirm that I too would love to see higher sync speeds. Maybe 1/500 as in the original 1D, along with 1/16,000 second ;D

Igloo, Neuro -- thanks for the education. Make perfect sense.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

Since when is a $2k camera entry level?

It is an entry level for full frame.
IMO once someone got to a level of competence with a camera they often branched into one of two major groups - one is those keen on action photography and that is where the APS-C 7D came in (pixel density for focal limited situations and good tracking AF system). Or they were more interested in portaits/landscape where AF was less important and the FF sensor gave maximum image quality.
So in that respect the 6D was 'entry level'.

The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product.

BS.
If the 6D is 'high end' where does that put the 5DIII (as it was then) and the 1Dx.

 

[neuroanatomist]

IMO once someone got to a level of competence with a camera they often branched into one of two major groups - one is those keen on action photography and that is where the APS-C 7D came in (pixel density for focal limited situations and good tracking AF system). Or they were more interested in portaits/landscape where AF was less important and the FF sensor gave maximum image quality.

Or they were interested in both, so they bought both a 7D and a 5DII. Then replaced both with a 1D X. Just sayin'.

 

[Maiaibing]

If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.

Yeah, you got me, I don't know how to use my camera. :

I dont seem to need this 'learning' when Im using my other cameras that have had more reliable off-centre AF points. People can get pin-sharp moving shots with manual focus so in theory no matter what AF we have you can always get a sharp shot, but that doesnt mean most people would be happy with better AF options than the current 6D.

Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.

 

[neuroanatomist]

If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.

Yeah, you got me, I don't know how to use my camera. :

I dont seem to need this 'learning' when Im using my other cameras that have had more reliable off-centre AF points. People can get pin-sharp moving shots with manual focus so in theory no matter what AF we have you can always get a sharp shot, but that doesnt mean most people would be happy with better AF options than the current 6D.

Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.

Hey, thanks for that! I guess I've been doing it all wrong on my 1D X, using AI Servo and iTR with all 61 AF points to track my kids as they run/ride/cycle/etc. through the frame. Here I've been composing shots with my kids' faces at aesthetically pleasing locations in the frame, and all along I should have them dead-center.

:

 

[ahsanford]

Hey, thanks for that! I guess I've been doing it all wrong on my 1D X, using AI Servo and iTR with all 61 AF points to track my kids as they run/ride/cycle/etc. through the frame. Here I've been composing shots with my kids' faces at aesthetically pleasing locations in the frame, and all along I should have them dead-center.

:

+1. Just because the kid is moving doesn't mean all composition sensibilities need to go out the window. Off-center AF for the win, yo.

Another need where center point and recompose will punish you is large aperture glass. Shooting a 50mm @ 1.4 and then recomposing is hot disaster sauce. More off-center AF points allow you to realize your compositional goals without having to stop down or get a blurry shot.

The 6D AF needs to improve. It doesn't need to get up to 5D3 levels -- it just needs to get to get halfway there.

- A

 

[Random Orbits]

Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.

That is one of the main reasons why I upgraded from the 5DII to the 5DII -- off center AF capability. The vast majority of the soccer pics I take of the kids' games use the cross outer AF points. Being restricted to the center point results in having to frame a lot looser for cropping and then you're throwing out a lot of IQ with all those cropped pixels.

 

[Luds34]

Doh! You guys beat me to it. I really wanted to get a tongue-in-cheek comment about someone maybe needing to learn how to use those "other" cameras, but the moment has passed.

When I used a 70D on a regular basis I often used the top, or upper corner focal points and had great success, even with solid action and fast glass. It would give either what I was looking for in composition, or close enough that a slight crop did the trick. Using center point only results in some pretty large crops, especially if on is trying to get a full body shot in. At that point one could be cutting the picture in half.

In any case, I look forward to the 6D2 hopefully giving me that capability again.

 

[NancyP]

To tell you the truth, I would have to see a significant improvement in the sensor to be keen on a 6D2. Why? I really like the 6D, and its AF is good enough for me.

 

[Maiaibing]

Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.

That is one of the main reasons why I upgraded from the 5DII to the 5DII -- off center AF capability. The vast majority of the soccer pics I take of the kids' games use the cross outer AF points. Being restricted to the center point results in having to frame a lot looser for cropping and then you're throwing out a lot of IQ with all those cropped pixels.

If you are shooting portraits of your kids playing soccer, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are much better targets than heads.

 

[neuroanatomist]

If you are shooting portraits of your kids, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are much better targets than heads.

The old 'f/8 and be there' thing doesn't always work. If I wanted that, I'd use my iPhone.


EOS 5D Mark II, EF 135mm f/2L USM, 1/1600 s, f/2.2, ISO 100

 

[ahsanford]

If you are shooting portraits of your kids, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are much better targets than heads.

No one is saying you can't take pictures with a 6D. We're saying we can't take pictures the way we want to with a 6D.

The limited AF system is a unnecessarily strict constraint that makes certain types of photography difficult to the point that our keeper rate drops, or we have to stop down to minimize the risk of a miss.

Consider: a Rebel has more AF points than the 6D. There's obviously more to an AF system than the number of points, but at a compositional level, someone slinging a $700 soccer mom rig has more AF flexibility than a $2,099 FF rig.

Oh wait, it's a $1,269 FF rig these days, having diminished in value far faster than other FF rigs with better AF setups. I wonder if the 6D's 'meh' AF system had anything to do with that... :

- A

 

[slclick]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.