Some Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR2]

[Random Orbits]

Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.

That is one of the main reasons why I upgraded from the 5DII to the 5DII -- off center AF capability. The vast majority of the soccer pics I take of the kids' games use the cross outer AF points. Being restricted to the center point results in having to frame a lot looser for cropping and then you're throwing out a lot of IQ with all those cropped pixels.

If you are shooting portraits of your kids playing soccer, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are much better targets than heads.

I target the head/upper chest logo. The uniforms are mostly monochromatic in the front so contrast is poor and swinging arms get in the way which are definitely out of the DOF. Shooting wide open with 70-200 II or 100-400 II and yes, the DOF is narrow but the 5DIII handles it well, which is something the 5DII did not. Using the center point limits composition if you're not willing to crop heavily or you lose a lot of pixels if you frame that loose to make center point only work -- neither is a great solution. I did it with the 5DII and the 20D before that but there is no way I'd go back to center point only. I could stop down, but that has a different look, and now I don't have to, even with an outer point.

 

[Don Haines]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.

Stop that! You are making sense and using logic! That is against internet rules

 

[slclick]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.

Stop that! You are making sense and using logic! That is against internet rules

And I'm also ready for when someone says that they want the 6D2 to be EF-M or the next Rebel to be FF. There's a bunch of wildcats here with long wishlists.

 

[Maiaibing]

If you are shooting portraits of your kids playing soccer, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are much better targets than heads.

I target the head/upper chest logo. The uniforms are mostly monochromatic in the front so contrast is poor and swinging arms get in the way which are definitely out of the DOF. Shooting wide open with 70-200 II or 100-400 II and yes, the DOF is narrow but the 5DIII handles it well, which is something the 5DII did not. Using the center point limits composition if you're not willing to crop heavily or you lose a lot of pixels if you frame that loose to make center point only work -- neither is a great solution. I did it with the 5DII and the 20D before that but there is no way I'd go back to center point only. I could stop down, but that has a different look, and now I don't have to, even with an outer point.

Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.

Shooting the 100-400mm zoom for a full body shot your DOF will fit even swinging arms @100mm and wide open - in the very rare circumstances they would distract the 5DIII AF (6D AF and newer models can be set to ignore swinging arms).

Maybe try a few test shots one day on some team training before your boys go on the field. Go for the torso. Will make your shooting much easier if it works for you.

Here 6D in real sports action: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.0

 

[ahsanford]

Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.

Shooting the 100-400mm zoom for a full body shot your DOF will fit even swinging arms @100mm and wide open - in the very rare circumstances they would distract the 5DIII AF (6D AF and newer models can be set to ignore swinging arms).

Maybe try a few test shots one day on some team training before your boys go on the field. Go for the torso. Will make your shooting much easier if it works for you.

Here 6D in real sports action: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.0

Maiaibing, fair comment about f/4.5 DOF with sports, but I think you are making our point for us: nearly every shot in that 6D series was center point if my eyes don't deceive me.

There is drama/value/character/perspective to be found in off-center composition, even in sports (not my shot below, but you get my idea). The 6D is not well equipped to reel such shots in.

- A

 

[Luds34]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.

And does that "entry level Porsche" come with a naturally aspirated 1.6L engine? The 6D has a focus system that would be considered entry level among cameras in general, not just full frame ones. Bottom line, give it what ever label you want, it's a camera that sits in the $2k market segment, it should have a AF system fitting of such segment, not being outclassed by cameras costing a third of the price.

 

[slclick]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.

Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.

And does that "entry level Porsche" come with a naturally aspirated 1.6L engine? The 6D has a focus system that would be considered entry level among cameras in general, not just full frame ones. Bottom line, give it what ever label you want, it's a camera that sits in the $2k market segment, it should have a AF system fitting of such segment, not being outclassed by cameras costing a third of the price.

Acceptance of Canon not keeping up with the joneses is mandatory for sanity's sake. It has not been a revolutionary nor reactionary company since the advent of the digital camera but a steady and profitable leader. And fwiw, a rumor spec list and price is not sitting in any market segment. It just sits on rumor forums.

 

[ricky_005]

6D I bought for $1100 a year ago does just fine. Sure better specs would be nice but it does quite well in low light.

Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.

Its never a surprise to me when Canon release new lens or bodies that they lack innovation. A new release is just a slightly modified lens or body and than convince the Canon fanboys it worth double the price. You Canon fanboys should know this by now.

 

[ahsanford]

Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.

You are welcome to say it, but the facts are not on your side. Canon has a decently consistent track record for delivering bodies on a longer timetable than you say.

These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.

1DX#-level: 4-ish years
5DS level: don't know -- first body in that line
5D#-level: 4-4.5 years
6D level: don't know -- first body in that line, but it can't be less than the 4.5 years we've already waited
7D-level: 5 years
80D-level: 3 years
Rebel-level: Last two gens have been every 2 years (new one about to drop)

EOS M: Too immature to peg. They're still inventing new trimlines for that.

If anything, product lifecycles are getting longer for a host of a reasons. Pick any line on the chart that has a 10 year history and the speed of releases has certainly not increased.

So Canon breaking our hearts with a Sony-style onslaught of new bodies in quick succession (a) is not in-character for Canon, (b) is financially wasteful for a stable market leader to do, and (c) will tend to have potential customers sit on their money because something new might come if they wait. I just don't see it.

- A

 

[Maiaibing]

These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.

5D#-level: 4-4.5 years

- A

1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.

2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.

 

[ricky_005]

These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.

5D#-level: 4-4.5 years

- A

1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.

2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.

There are rumor already the 5DS/R will be replaced soon ....... 5DS/R will be door stops in another year.

 

[Maiaibing]

Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.

Shooting the 100-400mm zoom for a full body shot your DOF will fit even swinging arms @100mm and wide open - in the very rare circumstances they would distract the 5DIII AF (6D AF and newer models can be set to ignore swinging arms).

Maybe try a few test shots one day on some team training before your boys go on the field. Go for the torso. Will make your shooting much easier if it works for you.

Here 6D in real sports action: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.0

Maiaibing, fair comment about f/4.5 DOF with sports, but I think you are making our point for us: nearly every shot in that 6D series was center point if my eyes don't deceive me.

There is drama/value/character/perspective to be found in off-center composition, even in sports (not my shot below, but you get my idea). The 6D is not well equipped to reel such shots in.

- A

Yes. But my claim was and has been only this: that if one cannot take pin-sharp pictures with a 6D of a "kid running around" - the problem brought up - then one should reconsider how one is shooting.

There are lots of good uses for outer AF points. Having more, stronger and better spread out AF points can only an advantage. Lets hope 6DII gets it. If it does I'll probably go with a 6DII instead of a 5DIV for backup camera.

 

[Otara]

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera.

Well that explains a lot.

 

[brianftpc]

If it doesnt have 4k it at least has to have uncompressed HDMI out. I dont see how it can be 28mp either. Eventually you have to ask yourself why you'd spend 1600 more on a 5D mk4.

 

[Diko]

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. ... Bodies are much better targets than heads.

Why? Actually I find the LiveView Face tracking awesome. And I even talk about taking photos of dogs. You just show what to follow on the awesome Touchscreen (that works with gloves, while my pad andiphone - CAN'T!) and the unpredictable animal is followed just perfectly.

The Xsync is the fastest shutter speed at which the sensor is fully exposed, in other words when the first curtain completes its traverse before the second curtain starts moving.... So, if the 6DII has a 1/4000 s max, it'll remain at 1/180 s, and if they bump it to 1/8000 s, it will also get a 1/200 s Xsync.

Who needs it when there's High Speed Flash Sync?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.

You are welcome to say it, but the facts are not on your side. Canon has a decently consistent track record for delivering bodies on a longer timetable than you say.

History suggests ricky and facts are poorly acquainted, at best.

 

[reef58]

These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.

5D#-level: 4-4.5 years

- A

1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.

2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.

There are rumor already the 5DS/R will be replaced soon ....... 5DS/R will be door stops in another year.

I guess it could be a doorstop to someone who has no idea how to use it. I am not sure what it is you need from it that it does not do. As long as the electronics hold out it would be a usable camera in 50 years from now. If you cannot make good photographs with a 5d of any generation then a new body may not be the answer.

 

[Maiaibing]

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. ... Bodies are much better targets than heads.

Why? Actually I find the LiveView Face tracking awesome. And I even talk about taking photos of dogs. You just show what to follow on the awesome Touchscreen (that works with gloves, while my pad andiphone - CAN'T!) and the unpredictable animal is followed just perfectly.

Because we were talking selectable AF points.

You are right we have new options that can be helpful. 5DIV indeed has a very nice live tracking face tracking feature. Not very comfortable using it myself on the 5DIV due to the unhandy fixed screen which makes the camera unwieldy with the relatively large and heavy lenses I tend to use hand held and which (hand holding) you probably often will want to do if shooting a kid "running around". Hope to get the same function on a tilt/swivel screen soon. YMMV.

 

[ahsanford]

1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.

2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.

No chart is perfect. NL reflects announcement dates and not shipping dates (see the 1DX beating the 5D3, that's consistent with announcement only).

As for the 5d previously being a shorter refresh, back when it was a 3 year refresh, Canon only had 5 lines of cameras. Now they have 13. So I'm not stating in 4.5 years further a 5D5 will show up. I'm just pegging how it has been trending.

And note that not a single product line on that chart is accelerating. With the lower end / P&S $$$ of the photography market disintegrating from the rise of cell phones, the entire industry appears to be lengthening its product lifecycles and increasing price. We're seeing m43 rigs -- body only -- for $2k nowadays!

So the chart is not a train schedule, it's a rough trend of activity. I welcome a better one if you are aware of one.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

There are rumor already the 5DS/R will be replaced soon ....... 5DS/R will be door stops in another year.

Of all the rumors of 'faster refreshes than latest trend' that I might believe, it's the 5DS, and there's a sales reason for that. For the last two major cycles, the cadence has been (roughly):

1DX-level announcement
(X months of buzz / marketing push / pre-orders / cameras start shipping / reviews roll in)
5D#-level announcement
(X months of buzz / marketing push / pre-orders / cameras start shipping / reviews roll in)
6D#-level announcement

But you get the idea: Announce the top line all by itself, gather lots of sales, take a deep breath, and announce the next item down the line. Rinse and repeat.

They did this with the 1DX* - 5D3 - 6D, and everyone on the planet expects them to complete the second round of this with the 1DX2 - 5D4 - 6D2.

*There was an exception to this due to the original 1DX getting delayed by a natural disaster, but it was indeed announced before the 5D3

But the 5DS rigs were an off-cycle major change. It was not a faster refresh (it was certainly no 5D3 replacement) so much as another card being added to the deck. I think there may be some wisdom in speeding up that specific line's refresh to better fall in line with the 5D line. When you stagger the 5D# and 5DS lines by a couple years, you get feature-set envy that boils peoples' blood. Releasing those cameras in close succession (may be not at the same time) would level-set what each camera gets technology-wise other than it's basic FPS / MP / AF / video differences.

But a 7D3 happening on the quick is only happening if the D500 cleans Canon's clock in the market, and I've seen no data to reflect that. If anything, the recent WiFi update becomes the 'midcycle refresh' like the 7D1 got halfway through it's five year voyage.

- A