Nobody has said it yet so I will. Since the "R3 Mark II" is being released will the original be discounted now. 
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Canon EOS R1 Spotted in the wild at the Monaco GP
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
They seem to have bigger heatsinks in the SSD/card reader. As much as CFe4 cards are great, I am not convinced that the sustained write speed is needed - especially if 24mp vs potentially hotter twin card slots vs 1 CFe slot in R3. A bigger body than R3 (and especially R5) will help a lot with thermal dissipation.
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That's great to hear. The CFe 4.0 standard was only announced 9 months ago so having available cards is important even if it is backwards compatible.
It isn't clear to me that Canon was able to source chipsets to support that standard in their design for R1 in time but we will see soon.
If the R5 had enabled 8k30 raw external recording from the beginning then the overheating kerfuffle would never have been an issue. Even if Canon said that a future 3rd party would enable recording (a la Ninja V+) then that would have been great marketing.
Running cooler would be a massive improvement but it isn't clear how it would be done. Dual CFe cards is double the heat.
Intel are looking to thermal throttling techniques for PCIe 5 to manage heat for instance. Faster speeds generally mean more heat though. Are the v4 card readers bigger/use bigger heatsinks?
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As far as I know, 16 bit has only been for medium format sensors for stills.
Can dual ISO/DLO sensors get 16 stills or only for video?
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On paper a1 is a All-round camera, but it isn't. The burst specs are full of caveats, unless you are using lossy RAWs & jpeg to get 30fps comfortably. Video wise it will overheat as bad as R5 in 8K if you have the unlucky batch. I didn't but few of my local planespotters group members suffer that.
I see no reason to recommend hybrid shooters to go for a1 and not Z9/Z8 or even a7r5 if speed isn't the absolute need. I sold my a1 because I found it more practical to have 2 specialised cameras for dedicated situations.
8K video crop into 6k/4k is a viable method. Imho it's handy.
No it just doesn't justify. 1DX3 in 2020 and R3 in 2021. If R3 was supposed to be R1. 1DX3 shouldn't release with the delayed Olympics.
It's the delayed Olympics and Sony a1 that force Canon to rush some intermediate solution for hi-speed professional camera. They know high MP can leave it to R5 as 12fps 14bit 45MP RAW isn't far off from a1 14bit 50MP RAW fluctuating around 15fps at best.
R3 is still a solid camera with the best burst in stacked CMOS till this date. There's nothing faster until GS CMOS a9iii.
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Perhaps because Canon is not yet able to develop a 50mp sensor that can still perform at the level of the A1 or upcoming A1ii. They seem to have decided to try to compete against the A9iii instead, but without the global shutter.
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I don't understand.
Suddenly sports photographers - who shoot mainly 8-bit jpegs - now need 16-bit Raws?
No TV or monitor can display anything above 10-bit bit depth. Sure, a bit more latitude is useful for tricky lighting - but 280 trillion colours?
Why leave the mechanical shutter in there for something that nobody will ever see?
Suddenly sports photographers - who shoot mainly 8-bit jpegs - now need 16-bit Raws?
No TV or monitor can display anything above 10-bit bit depth. Sure, a bit more latitude is useful for tricky lighting - but 280 trillion colours?
Why leave the mechanical shutter in there for something that nobody will ever see?
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We've been hashing and debunking the "R3 was supposed to be the R1" myth out repeatedly.
It's only the people who hasn't been involved in electronics development that think that a product like an R3/R1 camera can be turned around in 6 (or less months).
The "development announcement" from Canon isn't an announcement of "we are now developing the R1". It's more a "we have developed all the hardware for this camera, verified that the all the major specs are meeting the design specifications, and we are in the process of finishing up the firmware and software. And we are now officially saying that users can test it with the official badge on the camera".
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UPDATE 3 (05-26-2024 @ 11:09 AM) of what we found out:
@Canon Rumors Guy Thank you very much for including my collected information in the article, I'm very honored! I've updated the list again, the only things missing from teh outside are the connections and the card slot, but we already know at least three of them (HDMI, LAN, USB-C for sure)
Additionally what we already now better are the tow blue playback functions on the top, they are already included in the listing - so you can update their function in the article, if you want. (no pressure here)
Let me know any further things you have noticed, and i will update it again.
- the coating is the same as on the one R1 picture we got from Canon, so this is the R1 (what a surprise)
- here not very good to see, but to have the list complete, the R1 features a recording light on the front above the model name, which can be found on some vlogging cameras by Sony.
- The Viewfinder is huge, so i am pretty sure we will get close to 10 million image dots resolution (~3.3MP) AND the 2. generation of Eye-Control
- the multishoe has a lockable cap as far as I and others have spotted
- the R1 is far bigger than the R3, just look how small the 85mm f1.2 looks on it
- A metal bar for straps at the bottom (not seen at the R3, but aviable at many vertical grips and all the 1D-Series cameras)
- battery percentage on the top LCD is also new, not seen on the R3 Top Screen or any other, but aviably on the normal flippy screen (thanks to @RayValdez360 who metioned it first)
- The top button layout is the same as on the R3, plus a WB-Button (thanks to @dougsv for mentioning it)
- On the top are also two new symbols near the M-Fn button and the LCD-light button in a blueish colour: according to Tony Northrup the gas-station-like Symbol is the FTP-Symbol which indicates a dedicated button for wireless transmission. The other one shows a crop-symbol which might be for fast cropping while being in playback mode (thanks @arbitrage for the hint that the blue colour are functions in playback mode)
- the ON-OFF switch on the side, is for controling the vertical grip functions and was used on previous 1D-series Cameras, but is not built into the R3
- the card slot seems just a little bigger than on the R3, and has a new locking mechanism
- the bottom shows us an HDMI logo, so it features full HDMI
- a diopter control is also built into the viewfinder. I expected it, but just have it in here
- Also the mode-switch is the same as on the R3 and R5
- SN shows a 31, so this is number 31 to be produced
- The registration-ID says DS126925, according to most of the people, it is not the same as on of the 3 (-22, -28, -04) we have seen in the rumored registrations
- overall is the camera bigger, but especially thicker than the R3, that also improves the ergnomics (it is possible to measure the dimensions, with the dimensions of the 85mm f1.2, but i won't do that )
- the battery voltage is something over 10V and it seems like it is higher than the R3's. While the 1DX III and R3's LP-E19 Battery runs with 10.8V, the R1 runs with something like 15 point something Volts as far as i have spotted out of the pictures. @kaihp mentioned, that this is just input Voltage, not the battery voltage. So it makes sense if the R1 uses the same form factor battery, with maybe just an increased capacity, but no changed voltages
- from this two new photos I attache (plus the one posted first by @walnut) we also see that there are some things different and similar to the R3 and 1DX III (huge thanks to @uPhotic for sharing his thoughts):
- flippy screen: there is a normal 3-axis flippy screen, and not the found on the Sony a7RV
- AF Smart Controllers and Joysticks: on the picture we can see clearly two Smart Controlers and Joysticks as found on the 1DX III and R3
- INFO Button placed on both grips, so the INFO button now is built into the vertical grip as well (this is new)
- blue playback buttons below the display: The 1DXIII has 4, the R3 just 3, missing the protection button with the key symbol on it. As we now know there are four playback buttons below the display: playback, magnifying glass, dustbin, rating button
- the little white dot next to the dial wheel is the status light for writing/reading from the card(s) which also got a new position and shape
- New M-Fn3 button: there is a new M-Fn3 button on the top left (below the menu button)
- there is a LAN-light (so as expected full featured LAN)
- and a sensor below these buttons - we cannot say what this is by now but it looks very interesting. @uPhotic mentioned it could be a fingerprint sensor. I tend to think it is not a fingerprint sensor by looking at how their are integrated into smartphones, etc. but there is a certain possiblity that this is indeed a fingerprint sensor to unlock the camera.
@Canon Rumors Guy Thank you very much for including my collected information in the article, I'm very honored! I've updated the list again, the only things missing from teh outside are the connections and the card slot, but we already know at least three of them (HDMI, LAN, USB-C for sure)
Additionally what we already now better are the tow blue playback functions on the top, they are already included in the listing - so you can update their function in the article, if you want. (no pressure here
)Let me know any further things you have noticed, and i will update it again.
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The R3 has already seen huge discounts.Nobody has said it yet so I will. Since the "R3 Mark II" is being released will the original be discounted now.
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I strongly doubt that.
Considering that the flagship "only" does 24mp with a readout of 2ms, I see no way that the R5 II will be below 4ms or even the 5.2ms of the R3. Considering the rumors and forum posts it's much more likely to be around 7-8ms.
That would theoretically translate to a sync speed of 1/125. However, in practise I believe there will be no flash option in ES mode for the R5 II (like with the mark I) and that's the reason they kept the mechanical shutter. The 16bit will be a flagship only.
Archival.. You'll have a choice anyway. Lots of sports/events photographers shoot RAW. Maybe not all the time., external factors may come into play in certain situations.
If the camera is fast enough shooting 16-bit RAW and JPG/HEIF to different cards, Who wouldn't?
Lots of portrait and wild life photographers would shoot 16 bit if the environment suits it.
As always, there may be caveats to 16-bit stills.
mmmmm cavaets
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From a purely hardware point of view, the only difference that CFe 4.0 has over 1.0/2.0 is that it's using PCIe 4.0 instead of PCIe 3.0. PCIe controller IP blocks are offered by pretty much all IP vendors.
On the software front, the NVME revision goes from 1.3 to 1.4 and two things in 1.4 are important to us:
- Support for HMB, which means that for DRAM-less cards you can use a bit of RAM from the camera to cache reads/writes
- Host Controlled Thermal Management, the camera can set thermal threshold for the card, it's up to the card to throttle down appropriately
With these fast speeds, it makes me wonder if we'll need to look at formatting issues again, like in the EF(-M) days. If you had a really fast CF or SD card, you'd have to do a low-level format on your computer and then have the camera format it again. If I remember the details correctly, that would get you the 'Canon' variant of FAT32 which was noticeably faster than what Windows/OSX/Linux would do.
I suspect the camera just picked a better spot for the partitions, e.g. on a 4MiB boundary, not that it had a different FAT32. That would make reading the cards in your computer troublesome
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Technology moves forward, compression works better and files get smaller by holding more informations than their predecessors.
Take a look at the middle format cameras by Fuji and Hasselblad, or the RED Cinema Cameras all shoot with 16-bit depth. The great thing about them is their extraordinary informations in lights, shadows and colours in general in the RAW files. It is just a matter of time, until 16-bit drips down to the "lower-end" cameras, then. For editing the 16-bit are a warm welcome. The R1 starts, the R5 II will get it, then the R6 III, the R7 II and so on. If it ever reaches down to the R50/R100 is something we will see, but if so it will for sure take long time.
to the mechanical shutter: we have seen it in other cameras, that the bit depth drops, if you shoot in electronic shutter. Thats because the electronic readout would otherwise be too slow, i think. So the mechanical shutter stays to get the 16-bit.
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The extra bits in RAW give the JPEG engine more information, so it can, for example, produce nicer gradients by using dithering. Think of offset printing where you only have 4 inks and the paper colour, that's only 2-bit, right?
I'm curious how much difference we can practically see between 14-bit and 16-bit files, will it be allocated towards the highlights or the shadows? How fast does it deteriorate with ISO, at which point is the effective DR the same between MS and ES?
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It's a nice niche camera. But flagship? 24MP can't be your flagship in 2020 . . . much much less 2024. Heck, iPhones are over 40MP these days! (Even APPLE knows 24MP isn't enough anymore!) This is an embarrassment. Worst of all . . . Canon KNEW you couldn't have a 24MP "flagship" four years ago! Why was the original R1 labeled "R3"? Why did they deny the "R3" was their flagship? Because every other manufacturers' "flagship" has twice the resolution.
You can talk "benefits of a low res sensor" all day . . . but it's an excuse. No amount of AI can give a low res image the beauty and detail of a 45MP image. Just not possible.
You can talk "benefits of a low res sensor" all day . . . but it's an excuse. No amount of AI can give a low res image the beauty and detail of a 45MP image. Just not possible.
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