Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Full specs and images of the actual camera are out at NokiS___a. Surprise 5-axis image stabilization but everything else is what you would expect and rumored before, including Dual Pixel AF and 26.2 mp sensor.
Now it's time to wait and see the DXOmarks score and what Sony has in store for the A7 mark III

It's EIBIS for video only. It's not your classic IBIS we see on seemingly everyone's bodies these days besides Nikon and Canon.

The overwhelming surprise for me was 6.5 fps burst, just a scant 0.5 fps behind a $3299 5D4. 6D2 prospective buyers should be pretty pumped at that.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

And why does it have Bluetooth? Does this mean that Bluetooth microphones and headsets are now supported?

The only BT accessories I'd assume work are the Canon ones and knockoffs - basically the BT remote trigger that launched with the 77D. Do they make any others? BT is comprised of a whole lot of profiles, each of which need to be supported individually. I don't see Canon writing in support for profiles their accessories don't use.

I suspect that you are right.... I was wondering/hoping that there is a generic profile for headphones and microphones.....

There is also the possibility that Canon may be developing wireless accessories.....

I think it's BLE, so range limited. headphones may work .. dunno.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

And why does it have Bluetooth? Does this mean that Bluetooth microphones and headsets are now supported?

The only BT accessories I'd assume work are the Canon ones and knockoffs - basically the BT remote trigger that launched with the 77D. Do they make any others? BT is comprised of a whole lot of profiles, each of which need to be supported individually. I don't see Canon writing in support for profiles their accessories don't use.

I suspect that you are right.... I was wondering/hoping that there is a generic profile for headphones and microphones.....

There is also the possibility that Canon may be developing wireless accessories.....

They might; it would seem like a waste to use BT for only remote triggers. They could certainly release new firmware to add profiles in the future, if they wanted. I would think they would only add profiles that are used for their own accessories, though. Or maybe also phones and the like for display.

 

[hne]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Microphone Jack, but not seeing a headphone jack. If true, that will give the video folks something to dislike.

The rubber flaps that are supposed to cover the HDMI and USB connectors covers the area under the microphone socket. There's room for both PC and headphone sockets behind them. The 5DmkIV has PC on top and mic and headphone socket under that flap. Both cameras have remote connector on the front side.

except the flap that covers the mic only says mic on it.

Also, the images from digi-came show the flaps closed and there is nothing more there. I stand corrected.

 

[MarioHummer]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Thanks for the new info on the 6D MII.

Wow. If the earlier fps rating is confirmed (6.5), this will be a great camera indeed. The pixel count is not too large so as to compromise the signal/noise in low light and hopefully the dynamic range. And, when cropping for wildlife, etc., one should still be able to get a resolution similar to the 7DMII say but with better S/N.

Plus GPS, WiFi, ... . And I see great opportunities for astrophotography as well. I'm sold on this camera.

 

[roast_pigeon]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.


For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
less, or we are truly not so interested in taking videos. I love both stills and videos. I don't do so much videos (therefore at the back of my mind I convinced myself no 4K is not a big deal. I practically lie to myself!) because of the editing work.

I own an 80D, I am excited about 6D II. It is I think the full-frame brother of the 80D. Without 4K, I will hold on till next year to see if there will be a 90D with 4K. If no, I will then buy a 6D II (price will be much lower by then), and get a Panasonic (by then we probably will get 8K) for video. But this means I have fallen into Canon's trap: I still buy Canon. But listen, that will be my
last Canon and I believe with 6D II's specs, for just stills I won't need to buy another still camera for a long, long time. I really don't see stills-technology would be much of technology advancement focus anymore.

If yes, I will leave Canon for good. Because it would mean Canon is still backward thinking, still want to milk us dry with the same strategy. Hey, Canon, it is not like no manufacturer can match you. Time to move on!

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

1) We have no idea whether 4k would have been a $500 premium. It could have been much more, or not feasible to their standards in the space and weight allowed.
2) You are insane if you think a $2500 FF camera is going to kill Canon's whole APS-C range. People would still be mostly buying Rebels for a fraction of the price with much smaller and cheaper lenses.
3) Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic are not chipping off from Canon's market share.

Glad I could clear things up for you. Do feel free to get a Panasonic for video, but you're also not going to get 8k in 2018. That's a whole different world of bitrate. But hey, keep dreaming your dream.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags.
<SNIP>

Remember Nikon.... They came out with the D750 at $2500 and it was an extremely poor selling camera. Then they dropped the price to $1750 and it became a great selling camera. Price is very important. In an introductory level camera, price is probably the most important factor....

To suggest that Canon significantly bump up the price of a camera in order to include a feature that the masses are not interested in is.... well..... ummmmmm..... let's just say that you should not be applying for a job with Canon's marketing department.....

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.


For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
less, or we are truly not so interested in taking videos. I love both stills and videos. I don't do so much videos (therefore at the back of my mind I convinced myself no 4K is not a big deal. I practically lie to myself!) because of the editing work.

I own an 80D, I am excited about 6D II. It is I think the full-frame brother of the 80D. Without 4K, I will hold on till next year to see if there will be a 90D with 4K. If no, I will then buy a 6D II (price will be much lower by then), and get a Panasonic (by then we probably will get 8K) for video. But this means I have fallen into Canon's trap: I still buy Canon. But listen, that will be my
last Canon and I believe with 6D II's specs, for just stills I won't need to buy another still camera for a long, long time. I really don't see stills-technology would be much of technology advancement focus anymore.

If yes, I will leave Canon for good. Because it would mean Canon is still backward thinking, still want to milk us dry with the same strategy. Hey, Canon, it is not like no manufacturer can match you. Time to move on!

If there is a different model for $2,000 that has what you want, go for it, competition is a good thing, it helps drive manufacturers to produce better products. Certainly, no one should fault you for doing that.

Canon is making a profit while others are struggling because they understand that they can produce a product that has a low cost by carefully analyzing every penny that goes into a product, and giving the customer what he is willing to accept for the lowest price possible. That is how they clawed their way past Nikon in the 1970's with the AE-1, by keeping manufacturing costs down, and the resultant price down. They have kept true to this path, by producing products that are not necessarily cutting edge, but which satisfy most of the customers and undercut the competition price wise. Those who want cutting edge can pay twice the price or more, and get what they need. If a lot do this, then higher end features will be added, but there will still be a low price entry level model that is basic. Canon is very aware that users want 4K, but also very aware that price sells cameras, and a entry level camera aimed at entry level photographers does not need cutting edge features to sell in big quantities, it needs a low price.

The cost for producing a 6D MK II is probably less than $600, maybe a lot less. This means that once they pay for the initial development, tooling, advertising, repair facility setup and spare parts, stocking thousands of stores and the like, it becomes a big profit item and prices can drop and hurt the competition even more. This is not a secret, its why they sell more ... Price and customer service. Any new features must pay their way.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans. On one hand, it still outsells other manufacturers. Why kill the cash cow when it still brings in the money. If it brought out a 6D Mark II with 4K (let's say at $2,500 US), it would kill its many models out there from APS-C to full-frames with a much higher price tags. The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.


For those of us who say they don't take videos much or they don't care about 4K videos much, we'd better ask ourselves whether it is the editing work needed to get a professional looking video out that is making us doing/caring about it
less, or we are truly not so interested in taking videos. I love both stills and videos. I don't do so much videos (therefore at the back of my mind I convinced myself no 4K is not a big deal. I practically lie to myself!) because of the editing work.

I own an 80D, I am excited about 6D II. It is I think the full-frame brother of the 80D. Without 4K, I will hold on till next year to see if there will be a 90D with 4K. If no, I will then buy a 6D II (price will be much lower by then), and get a Panasonic (by then we probably will get 8K) for video. But this means I have fallen into Canon's trap: I still buy Canon. But listen, that will be my
last Canon and I believe with 6D II's specs, for just stills I won't need to buy another still camera for a long, long time. I really don't see stills-technology would be much of technology advancement focus anymore.

If yes, I will leave Canon for good. Because it would mean Canon is still backward thinking, still want to milk us dry with the same strategy. Hey, Canon, it is not like no manufacturer can match you. Time to move on!

If you want 4k video, there is always the Canon XC-10 for $2000 or the XC-15 for $2300, each complete with a zoom lens, and they have been out for a while. There are other options as well that will provide a far better 4K capability than anything that Canon could get into a 6DII for $500. At best, a 6DII with 4K capability would be a starter camera for somebody getting into 4K, and as you point out learning how to process 4K can be a daunting prospect. I just don't see the market.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.

Another piece of the puzzle is what the overall demand for full frame and crop cameras will be. It is hard to see much potential for growth, after several years of decline. Maybe a stable demand is the best to be hoped for. In any case, I don't think that Canon's rolling out the dual pixel technology over the last couple of years qualifies as resting on its laurels, especially as far as video is concerned.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.

It's quite an apt analogy. Much better than, for example, all those who shout KODAK...NOKIA on these forums. While those two companies are examples of failure to predict/react to a paradigm shift, that's not happing in the ILC industry now. Rather, the situation is as you describe for CPU chips – incremental changes. How's Intel doing now? Did AMD 'surprise' offerings spell doom for Intel, or did Intel react? Personally, I don't follow the CPU market, but I will say it's been a long time since I've seen a computer without an 'Intel Inside' sticker on it.

But for some reason, a small subset of people here on CR (who some may call 'trolls', and not without reason), assume that Canon will not react if necessary, and thus that Canon is doomed. Like 5 years ago, when Sony's/Nikon's better low ISO DR and Canon's 'horrible' fixed pattern noise (that was soooo evident when you pushed shadows >3 stops) meant Canon was doomed. The thing is, as you correctly point out, the market isn't forcing Canon to react, the market is rewarding Canon for their choices. Still, how is Canon's low ISO DR now? Well, the 80D has better low ISO DR than the Nikon D5...and the Sony A9 has noise at low ISO. And Canon was and remains the market leader.

 

[dak723]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My take is that technology is advancing in lightning speed, the good old 1980-1990 product strategy has expired long ago. But Canon still uses this strategy to milk its fans.

Sorry to say, but your take is wrong, in my opinion. Digital camera technology was already quite advanced when the first affordable DSLRs came out in the early 2000s. I know folks on this forum are far more interested in tech than the average photographer, so they ooh and aaah every time the noise levels improve by a 1/3rd of a stop every few years, but for most types of photography you can tell little difference in a photo taken by a camera 2 or 3 generations older. Most advances are in taking the photo rather than in photo IQ, so there have have been advances in AF and FPS, but from one generation to the next the improvements are very small and incremental. Aside from folks on this type of forum, I would think it very unlikely that a camera owner will upgrade every generation, but rather waits at least 2 generations to upgrade. It's a mature technology now. Only the 2% or so "photophiles" need the latest and greatest. Not to say there won't be some new technology breakthrough in the future, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Dagnabbit, neruo, you've gonr and fallen into that same old trap believing that sales figures have anything to do with whether the sales figures bear any relation to whether the camera delivers to the client what they need. Please learn the fact that their sales figures are only because they have trapped people into their evil web of confidence trickery, and once someone buys the Rebel with the 18-55 kit lens, selling that lens to fund a switch to NikOny is prohibitive to making the switch. They are trapped I tells ya!

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.

It's quite an apt analogy. Much better than, for example, all those who shout KODAK...NOKIA on these forums. While those two companies are examples of failure to predict/react to a paradigm shift, that's not happing in the ILC industry now. Rather, the situation is as you describe for CPU chips – incremental changes. How's Intel doing now? Did AMD 'surprise' offerings spell doom for Intel, or did Intel react? Personally, I don't follow the CPU market, but I will say it's been a long time since I've seen a computer without an 'Intel Inside' sticker on it.

But for some reason, a small subset of people here on CR (who some may call 'trolls', and not without reason), assume that Canon will not react if necessary, and thus that Canon is doomed. Like 5 years ago, when Sony's/Nikon's better low ISO DR and Canon's 'horrible' fixed pattern noise (that was soooo evident when you pushed shadows >3 stops) meant Canon was doomed. The thing is, as you correctly point out, the market isn't forcing Canon to react, the market is rewarding Canon for their choices. Still, how is Canon's low ISO DR now? Well, the 80D has better low ISO DR than the Nikon D5...and the Sony A9 has noise at low ISO. And Canon was and remains the market leader.

OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.

I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering

 

[bdunbar79]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The damage would be obvious and speedy, and may well be bigger than what Sony, Fuji and Panasonic are chipping off from Canon's market share.

Except that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, and Fuji and Panasonic's ILC market shares are small enough to be irrelevant. Which pretty much invalidates your argument.

Which I'd like to see, at least a bit. Just to wake up the sleeping beauty/dragon/whatever. Competition and racing is always good for the customer. Look at Intel for example. They had a decade of basically very incremental upgrades and amazing profits. But they slept on their laurels perhaps a bit too long and let themselves be a bit surprised with Ryzen/Epyc offerings of AMD. I know that this comparision is not very precise as camera world is much more diverse than just two brands. But still, I think you get my point.

It's quite an apt analogy. Much better than, for example, all those who shout KODAK...NOKIA on these forums. While those two companies are examples of failure to predict/react to a paradigm shift, that's not happing in the ILC industry now. Rather, the situation is as you describe for CPU chips – incremental changes. How's Intel doing now? Did AMD 'surprise' offerings spell doom for Intel, or did Intel react? Personally, I don't follow the CPU market, but I will say it's been a long time since I've seen a computer without an 'Intel Inside' sticker on it.

But for some reason, a small subset of people here on CR (who some may call 'trolls', and not without reason), assume that Canon will not react if necessary, and thus that Canon is doomed. Like 5 years ago, when Sony's/Nikon's better low ISO DR and Canon's 'horrible' fixed pattern noise (that was soooo evident when you pushed shadows >3 stops) meant Canon was doomed. The thing is, as you correctly point out, the market isn't forcing Canon to react, the market is rewarding Canon for their choices. Still, how is Canon's low ISO DR now? Well, the 80D has better low ISO DR than the Nikon D5...and the Sony A9 has noise at low ISO. And Canon was and remains the market leader.

OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.

I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering

I really don't get when people say innovation and progress go out the window. Apparently you need a refresher in all the firsts Canon has had, and will continue to have. What progress are you specifically thinking in your statement?

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.

I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering

I really don't get when people say innovation and progress go out the window. Apparently you need a refresher in all the firsts Canon has had, and will continue to have. What progress are you specifically thinking in your statement?

Sorry about that. English is not my native language. Let me rephrase:
Should Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress will go out of the window.

And that basically applies to any company. And that is not, what I would want to become with Canon.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

OT: Problem with AMD is, that even it's currently offering much better price/performance ratio (and finally caught up with Intel on the single-core field - well, almost) it can't threaten Intel that much. Reason? Manufacturing capabilities - better lack of thereof.

I'm not flogging Canon for this and that, actually I'm quite happy with 6D (as a hobbyist, not a pro OFC) and some L lenses. My gripe is, when Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress goes out of the window. Still, DPAF looks very good and with combination of Vari-Angle LCD on 6D2, I'm pretty much sold on that camera. That is, unless some major design flaw occurs - I'm definitely waiting for reviews, not preordering

I really don't get when people say innovation and progress go out the window. Apparently you need a refresher in all the firsts Canon has had, and will continue to have. What progress are you specifically thinking in your statement?

Sorry about that. English is not my native language. Let me rephrase:
Should Canon becomes too much dominant, innovation and progress will go out of the window.

And that basically applies to any company. And that is not, what I would want to become with Canon.

I think it depends on your market and where you make money. if you are taking in money via reoccurring revenue, then yes, that's an easy trap. but if you live and die by sales of new products, you have to make new products that are worth new purchases from your existing market.