There will be “a lot” of new RF mount lenses from Canon between now and March 2024

[Walrus]

The disadvantages are having to use an EVF (I'd prefer an OVF any day, although I know there are many who disagree) and battery life. Throw in the fact it seems unlikely we will see much if any further development of DSLRs in future, in the end the attractions of mirrorless won out for me.

I was scared by the EVF, too, but I got to say after a couple of weeks of adapting, I now see no difference with OVF, I don't perceive it anymore 95% of times in broad daylight; only moments when I do feel the difference is in a very dark studio, or in a very dark venue during an event (usually during dances). Consider that I use the lowest refresh rate to save the battery, so I don't even ask it the full performance; also having disabled the exposure sim gives me even more perception of using an actual OVF. So I can say that after almost two years of R6 it's very rare that I feel I'm using an EVF.

Battery life is not an issue, too; I shoot in single shot (1fps), so no "spray and pray", and I can safely get 2000/2500 pics out of a single battery, so with two batteries in a BG I safely shoot two weddings and some extra before swapping batteries; from that point of view I get more battery life from the R6 then from the 6D, where I don't remember ever passing 1800 shots with a single battery, and the average duration is around 1500 shots.
See pic attached, and consider those are a very old pair of LP-E6 (no N, no H) that I probably bought in 2010 with the 5DII, or at best in 2014 with 6D, so they are pretty battered.

 

[Walrus]

For me the only draw back is the battery consumption.

Certainly depends on type of usage; I took a couple of talking heads video (simple corporate interviews), and I really saw the batteries draining minute per minute. I think there's no escape for a video or mixed photo/video usage.

In pure photography when I first got the R6, for the first weeks I was able to squeeze 1000/1200 pics from a battery, which is still decent, and wasn't far from what I was getting from the 6D.
Then I started honing my way of using it, learning to turn off the camera the very second I don't need it, I dug deeply into menu to fine tuning the options for battery savings, ECO mode, etc, and as the picture I posted above, I now usually squeeze 2000+ pics from a battery shooting 1fps.

I think something can still be done from Canon side to help us save even more: I would like to have just the EVF working with the proximity sensor without the rear display ever turning on (so likely a DSLR would work), and this is possible, but when I hit the menu button in this config, the menu itself appears in the EVF, which is uncomfortable and frustrating. I want to have a "only use EVF" config (so when camera is not to my eye, both EVF and rear display are off) where the menu would appear on the rear display when I press the menu button. Yes, I think you could configure a button to switch between EVF only and display only (or the std mix display + evf depending on proximity sensor), so if you want menu, you first switch from EVF only to the "std" setting, and then you press menu, but that's TWO buttons to do 1 single thing, and so it's a no-go for me. I really wish Canon would implement an option to do that, EVF only but menu in the rear display.

EDIT: I now don't have the camera in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that in EVF-only, also when i Play a picture, that will appear in the EVF rather then on the rear display. That's dumb imho.

 

[Del Paso]

I am not fond of adapters, though I admit this particular use is only minimally annoying to me (I tend to grumpiness in my old age) and it seems to work rather well. But when you "jump ship" aren't you risking worse ergonomics? For example, as I recall the rings (focus/zoom) on Nikon cameras worked the opposite way to the Canon, which I was used to. That would drive me crazy in itself (which might really be a putt in my case, rather than a drive).

I agree in doing what best fits our needs and in my case it is keeping ergonomics and features I have grow used to....but that is only in my case.

Are ergonomics that important?
Even more than I could have imagined!
I was waiting for the R 5II, like many of us, really wanted a lightweight, compact body...
Stupidly, I went to my local Canon store, and, out of curiosity, took a look at the R3. And then it was done...
Ergonomic perfection, better than anything I've been using before. I certainly do not need 95% of its features (AF speed, bursts etc...), but this is for me the best "handholdable" camera ever. My hands are large.I will still wait to see the R5 II, but my decision is almost taken...
Unless the R5 II offers "sensational" features, my next babe will be named R3, despite its size and weight.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'm not sure that would be the case as the RF100-500 has rear elements that are too close to the sensor for the 100-300 range with a TC.

The patented design would work for every RF lens as long as the rear element does not protrude into the mount.
They did not mention it but I also assume that it would work for every adapted EF lens.
There is a hack to do that using the current RF Extenders anyway.

 

[Del Paso]

I certainly understand about mirrorless AF! And I can understand, too, if you are not carrying bags of gear very far that the weight of the gear really isn't an issue.

For me, the attractions of mirrorless are the AF and smaller/lighter gear. The disadvantages are having to use an EVF (I'd prefer an OVF any day, although I know there are many who disagree) and battery life. Throw in the fact it seems unlikely we will see much if any further development of DSLRs in future, in the end the attractions of mirrorless won out for me.

Funny how different photographers can be...
The small size is just what I dislike about the mirrorless generation (R3, S1 and SL2 excepted). Thr worst ones for me being the Sonies and the Fujies. Also, quite often, controls are too close to the eyepiece (I'm a left-eye shooter).
I still miss the ergonomics of the EOS 5 D series...

 

[EOS 4 Life]

My understanding of the difference between EF and R mount is the reduced flange distance allowing rear elements to be closer to the sensor due to no mirror box. If the designs by the 3rd parties are taking advantage of that then they need to be R mount mechanically (and currently be manual focus only) as they couldn't use the adapter. If the design doesn't bring the rear element closer than the EF mount distance then a EF version (with EF auto focus protocols) could be produced.

The EF and RF mounts are almost identical,
Manufacturers would only need an EF to RF adapter protocol-wise in order to use a mirrorless design without violating Canon's patents.
The only difference between an SLR design and a mirrorless design would be the back focus to accommodate for the flange distance.

 

[SteB1]

I think quite a few, will just be M mount lenses, with new mounts for RF-S.

 

[EricN]

Certainly depends on type of usage; I took a couple of talking heads video (simple corporate interviews), and I really saw the batteries draining minute per minute. I think there's no escape for a video or mixed photo/video usage.

In pure photography when I first got the R6, for the first weeks I was able to squeeze 1000/1200 pics from a battery, which is still decent, and wasn't far from what I was getting from the 6D.
Then I started honing my way of using it, learning to turn off the camera the very second I don't need it, I dug deeply into menu to fine tuning the options for battery savings, ECO mode, etc, and as the picture I posted above, I now usually squeeze 2000+ pics from a battery shooting 1fps.

I think something can still be done from Canon side to help us save even more: I would like to have just the EVF working with the proximity sensor without the rear display ever turning on (so likely a DSLR would work), and this is possible, but when I hit the menu button in this config, the menu itself appears in the EVF, which is uncomfortable and frustrating. I want to have a "only use EVF" config (so when camera is not to my eye, both EVF and rear display are off) where the menu would appear on the rear display when I press the menu button. Yes, I think you could configure a button to switch between EVF only and display only (or the std mix display + evf depending on proximity sensor), so if you want menu, you first switch from EVF only to the "std" setting, and then you press menu, but that's TWO buttons to do 1 single thing, and so it's a no-go for me. I really wish Canon would implement an option to do that, EVF only but menu in the rear display.

EDIT: I now don't have the camera in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that in EVF-only, also when i Play a picture, that will appear in the EVF rather then on the rear display. That's dumb imho.

Those are good ideas! I'm doing similar to you, but it still seems like the batteries drain faster to me although I haven't been keeping records to check for sure. It could be because I use the WiFi
It would definitely be good to control the display more.

 

[Walrus]

It could be because I use the WiFi

Oh, in that case IT'S CERTAIN; an entire fully charged battery is going to be drained (happened to me) in 4/5 days even when the camera is unused, closed in your storage. Wireless functions destroys batteries. Also re-happened when bought the RP, I forgot to check all the settings, and I couldn't understand why batteries were draining in 2/3 days (LP-E17 is much smaller then the LP-E6x) with the camera unused.
Of course my 2000/2500 shots per battery are done with the camera rigorously in airplane mode, otherwise the duration would likely be half of it, or even less if the wireless functions were not just on and idle, but actively used.

 

[kaihp]

Stupidly, I went to my local Canon store, and, out of curiosity, took a look at the R3. And then it was done...

The R3 also has a pleasantly lower weight than the 1Dx series cameras. At first when I saw the smaller dimensions vs the 1Dx, I was concerned about the ergonomics. Handling it immediately put that to rest.

 

[AlanF]

I think something can still be done from Canon side to help us save even more: I would like to have just the EVF working with the proximity sensor without the rear display ever turning on (so likely a DSLR would work), and this is possible, but when I hit the menu button in this config, the menu itself appears in the EVF, which is uncomfortable and frustrating. I want to have a "only use EVF" config (so when camera is not to my eye, both EVF and rear display are off) where the menu would appear on the rear display when I press the menu button. Yes, I think you could configure a button to switch between EVF only and display only (or the std mix display + evf depending on proximity sensor), so if you want menu, you first switch from EVF only to the "std" setting, and then you press menu, but that's TWO buttons to do 1 single thing, and so it's a no-go for me. I really wish Canon would implement an option to do that, EVF only but menu in the rear display.

EDIT: I now don't have the camera in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that in EVF-only, also when i Play a picture, that will appear in the EVF rather then on the rear display. That's dumb imho.

I turn the rear screen inwards as I rarely use it. So, it's automatically off.

 

[Walrus]

I turn the rear screen inwards as I rarely use it. So, it's automatically off.

Being flipped inward is basically the same issue (for me of course) of setting "EVF only": not having the rear display ready to use when needed.

I want it disabled by default, but when I press Menu or Play, I want to see those two thing going to the display, not the EVF; it's a natural thought, at least for me, is not something I found out I desired after weeks or months of use, it was a Day-one desire.
I unboxed the camera, saw display always active, "why the f*ck is this thing always on for nothing, let's disable it", read the manual, activated the only EVF mode, then pressed Menu/Play and "wtf is this, this is seriously going to the EVF? C'mon, there's has to be a subfunction/checkmark to tweak this behaviour, they can't be so dumb!"...well, turned out they were, again, for my own taste and preference, I don't want to make it an absolute, there are sensitive people here and don't want to be called whiner.
But this a thing that I got in less then 10min from unboxing, it's so unacceptable to me, I thought "did those engineers/designers actually ever took a real picture at a paid event with this thing? Or at least haven't they some beta testers and ambassadors, with different styles and specialities, to test in the field before firmware finalization and camera release?".

Maybe I'm the only one in the world that feels this need, and I got over it, with ECO mode the display goes to sleep in like 10 seconds (but I usually turn off the camera already), so no big issue...but I'd still prefer if I could set the thing as per my preference, which is not something unheard of; it's how a DSRL, taken into account the obvious differences, works. You use (E)VF, display is off, when you press menu/play the display goes on. From my point of view this thing is so straightforward.

 

[Old Sarge]

Are ergonomics that important?
Even more than I could have imagined!
I was waiting for the R 5II, like many of us, really wanted a lightweight, compact body...
Stupidly, I went to my local Canon store, and, out of curiosity, took a look at the R3. And then it was done...
Ergonomic perfection, better than anything I've been using before. I certainly do not need 95% of its features (AF speed, bursts etc...), but this is for me the best "handholdable" camera ever. My hands are large.I will still wait to see the R5 II, but my decision is almost taken...
Unless the R5 II offers "sensational" features, my next babe will be named R3, despite its size and weight.

I "liked" your message because it makes sense to me. But I also don't "like" it. I was enjoying my R7 for the last few months but after reading some of this site, after staying off it for a while, and I started lusting for a full frame camera (there goes the 10th Commandment). I've never owned one and I could probably squeeze enough out of my fun fund to get an R8. But then I was thinking an R6 might be better....but wait, there is a MkII model. Now you have me thinking R5 or R5II. "Get thee behind me Satan, and don't shove."

Sidenote to Walrus: You said you "get your food" with cameras. Sadly, I did that one time as a small time photojournalist. Sadly, because I lost the joy in photography and didn't use a camera for fun for about ten years. Since that time I have done a few things that would be paying gigs but I did them as favors and gifts so I wouldn't lose the joy. I hope you enjoy your work.

 

[Walrus]

I hope you enjoy your work.

I enjoy it, thank you for your kind thought
...but I certainly would enjoy better if there was even more work In the last 3 years I gradually moved from a mix income (I worked corporate for 10 years) to full time photography, so I'm still trying to expand the business to make it fully sustainable, while now is just borderline sustainable, thanks to the savings I did in the past. But I'm happier then before, and I sleep better, that's what really counts, even if I was certainly earning better money before.

 

[EricN]

Being flipped inward is basically the same issue (for me of course) of setting "EVF only": not having the rear display ready to use when needed.

I want it disabled by default, but when I press Menu or Play, I want to see those two thing going to the display, not the EVF; it's a natural thought, at least for me, is not something I found out I desired after weeks or months of use, it was a Day-one desire.
I unboxed the camera, saw display always active, "why the f*ck is this thing always on for nothing, let's disable it", read the manual, activated the only EVF mode, then pressed Menu/Play and "wtf is this, this is seriously going to the EVF? C'mon, there's has to be a subfunction/checkmark to tweak this behaviour, they can't be so dumb!"...well, turned out they were, again, for my own taste and preference, I don't want to make it an absolute, there are sensitive people here and don't want to be called whiner.
But this a thing that I got in less then 10min from unboxing, it's so unacceptable to me, I thought "did those engineers/designers actually ever took a real picture at a paid event with this thing? Or at least haven't they some beta testers and ambassadors, with different styles and specialities, to test in the field before firmware finalization and camera release?".

Maybe I'm the only one in the world that feels this need, and I got over it, with ECO mode the display goes to sleep in like 10 seconds (but I usually turn off the camera already), so no big issue...but I'd still prefer if I could set the thing as per my preference, which is not something unheard of; it's how a DSRL, taken into account the obvious differences, works. You use (E)VF, display is off, when you press menu/play the display goes on. From my point of view this thing is so straightforward.

Unfortunately, I believe we have to adjust and do what @AlanF suggested. Another advantage is my nose doesn't touch the screen and change the focus point.
And I need to turn on airplane mode when I'm not using the WiFi for anything.

 

[EricN]

I enjoy it, thank you for your kind thought
...but I certainly would enjoy better if there was even more work In the last 3 years I gradually moved from a mix income (I worked corporate for 10 years) to full time photography, so I'm still trying to expand the business to make it fully sustainable, while now is just borderline sustainable, thanks to the savings I did in the past. But I'm happier then before, and I sleep better, that's what really counts, even if I was certainly earning better money before.

A friend of mine was impressed I can sell some paintings and even very few photos because as he said it, "Everyone I went to school with has given up and just works at a restaurant or something." So, even borderline sustainable is something! Actually, I think everyone I've seen who posts their work can sell some. Although, it can be more difficult to market than it's worth, especially for people that already have a good level of income.

 

[Del Paso]

I "liked" your message because it makes sense to me. But I also don't "like" it. I was enjoying my R7 for the last few months but after reading some of this site, after staying off it for a while, and I started lusting for a full frame camera (there goes the 10th Commandment). I've never owned one and I could probably squeeze enough out of my fun fund to get an R8. But then I was thinking an R6 might be better....but wait, there is a MkII model. Now you have me thinking R5 or R5II. "Get thee behind me Satan, and don't shove."

Sidenote to Walrus: You said you "get your food" with cameras. Sadly, I did that one time as a small time photojournalist. Sadly, because I lost the joy in photography and didn't use a camera for fun for about ten years. Since that time I have done a few things that would be paying gigs but I did them as favors and gifts so I wouldn't lose the joy. I hope you enjoy your work.

Hi "Old Sarge"!
Just keep enjoying your R7. A full frame is no necessity. What matters, is a camera you're satisfied with. In my very own case, I need a camera with a bigger size, having, after a spinal injury, lost some finger-sensitivity. The R3 has its controls better placed than most other cameras (for me!), and eye-control AF. That's why it should be ideal for me, but mustn't be so for anyone else.
Keep enjoying your R7, until YOU feel the need for something else, which may never happen!

 

[Walrus]

Another advantage is my nose doesn't touch the screen and change the focus point.

No problem with that, first thing I did (even before messing with EVF! ) on all my cameras was to disable the touch screen interface entirely, there are enough buttons and dials (for my tastes of course; others may disagree) to work it "manually" without the need of touching the screen, it's something I really don't feel comfortable using because I need to detach the camera from my eye to work it (yes, I know touch&drag AF can be used with the camera to your eye; but I still prefer joysticks and 4/8ways controllers), and that slows me down.

I'm not a big "fiddler" with settings, I shoot manual 100% of times, so after setting the WB in a controlled situation (or using AutoWB in events), basically what I change it's just the exposure triangle, and I can do that with the dials. I don't change drive modes, I don't change exposure modes, picture styles (Faithful is my go to), image format, image crop, etc. Apart from exposure triangle, I just switch from OneShot to Servo, and I switch focus modes from single point to multi/face detection, and I program a button for each of those functions. Another button toggles eye detection on/off. I don't change anything else really, at least not during an actual shooting, so the touch is redundant for how I work, and I get a cleaner screen with no fingerprints on it.

 

[Walrus]

A friend of mine was impressed I can sell some paintings and even very few photos because as he said it, "Everyone I went to school with has given up and just works at a restaurant or something." So, even borderline sustainable is something! Actually, I think everyone I've seen who posts their work can sell some. Although, it can be more difficult to market than it's worth, especially for people that already have a good level of income.

I have a BA in photography, took more then 10 years ago, so before going corporate; we were 32 people at the beginning of 3 years of study, we end up in 25/26 I think.
Of those 25 people, just 3 went directly starting working full time in photography, another 4/6 like me end up doing something else but still had a partial income as photographers and were fiscally registered as photographers, all the others end up doing something else and saved photography like a hobby.

Today for what I know (13 years after graduating) just 5 of us, on 25, are earning more then 20% of their income from photography (when I was working corporate that was my balance, 80% as employee and 20% from photo).

 

[ghalib737]

Is this really happening?

A slow company like Canon is releasing lenses. The R50 or R10 sale is seriously hampering for the lack of lens. Actually I own a R10. I am a mid level user. I use my R10 for my talking head video at YouTube and my wife is doing product photography. I used EFS24mm f2.8 previously and now I got a very old Sigma 17-50mm f2.8. It is doing good although it is a bit slow, heavy and make noise during focusing. But having a lens like Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 with IS is awesome for photography.

Actually for my entire work-

1. I need a lens like Sigma 17-50mm in RF version with IS (having IS is very important for R10 and R50) and
2. a prime like Sigma 16mm f1.4 or Canon EFM 22m f2.

Will canon solve problem of the thousands users like me.