The Canon EOS M5 Mark II and Canon EOS M6 Mark II are on the way [CR1]

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
344
140
---

YOU are the PRIME MARKET for the M5/M6 replacements as they are small, lightweight, will take more-than-decent photos and you probably DO NOT want to spend big bucks on a 7D-series or higher! Again, the M5/M6 will sell very well to people just like you and your wife!

NOW.... the fly-in-the-ointment will become VERY apparent once large sensor (i.e. 2/3rds inch and APS-C) super-smartphones come out that have POWERFUL CPU processors (i.e. Qualcomm Snapdragon 855 and better!) that can do a LOT of on-board Pixel-3 or Huaweii P30 like photo processing and computational photography tasks what will MAKE your photos conform-to and/or actually become professional level with a minimum of fuss!

Once that happens ALL manufacturers (Canon included!) ABSOLUTELY WILL need to change their product lineup and pricing schemes in order to compete with products that will BLEED over 90% of their point-n-shoot or mid-range camera business away from their bottom lines. While I do have SOME VERY SPECIFIC INSIDER KNOWLEDGE of what is coming out very soon now in terms of large-sensor smartphones, I am STILL confused as to what Canon is thinking about doing business-wise to counteract devices that are BOTH very portable pro-level cameras AND portable personal supercomputers!

.
We live in VERY interesting times and while the M5/M6 replacements are more-than-decent in their own right, they are merely unstable footholds for staying with old technology rather than a means to march into the future!

IT'S COMING !!!! The merging of computational photography, large low-noise image sensors AND supercomputer-level smartphones WILL BE A REALITY VERY SOON !!! So WHAT is Canon going to DO ABOUT THAT ABSOLUTE FACT ??? !!!

.
Well, you can ask what is any of these companies doing about the increasingly competent smartphone. I think that they can do very little. A smartphone is what it is because it’s a computerized communications device with built-in LTE which everyone expects to pay for every month. Nobody expects to have, and pay for, LTE in their stand alone camera. Apple’s industry leading SoC which powers it all is estimated, by Microprocessor Reports, to cost Apple between about $35 to $40 each. If they sold them to others, the price would be a lot higher, and they won’t. Top Android SoCs are cheaper, one reason why they don’t perform as well. But, even so, they’re much more powerful and general purpose than the chips built into cameras.

then you need RAM, NAND, and everything else to go with it. I can’t see that happening. A much bigger battery, more bulk, and a lot more money. It’s not in the cards.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,055
290
The M series, on the other hand has been popular from the beginning, and has gained in popularity pretty much everywhere. Despite a number of writers, such as ThomHogan, saying that Canon needs an APS-C system with the same mount as the R series, I’m not so sure that’s true. With that mount, the camera will be larger, heavier, and likely more expensive.

The truth is that sizes smaller than full frame are shrinking (heh) in sales faster than full frame is—other than Canon’s M series, which is doing well, so why discontinue it? Possibly Canon might come out with an R mount APS-C, but this is a distinctive line with good sales, and I assume, at least a decent profitability. That’s rare these days.
If Canon wants to make an aps-c camera to fill the 7DII niche, it could make sense to use the new high end mirrorless AF system and put an RF mount on it, in order to use long RF glass. With an adapter it could even use EF-s lenses.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
416
30
Well, you can ask what is any of these companies doing about the increasingly competent smartphone. I think that they can do very little. A smartphone is what it is because it’s a computerized communications device with built-in LTE which everyone expects to pay for every month. Nobody expects to have, and pay for, LTE in their stand alone camera. Apple’s industry leading SoC which powers it all is estimated, by Microprocessor Reports, to cost Apple between about $35 to $40 each. If they sold them to others, the price would be a lot higher, and they won’t. Top Android SoCs are cheaper, one reason why they don’t perform as well. But, even so, they’re much more powerful and general purpose than the chips built into cameras.

then you need RAM, NAND, and everything else to go with it. I can’t see that happening. A much bigger battery, more bulk, and a lot more money. It’s not in the cards.
===

Yet I can buy a super high end Google Pixel-series phone for less than a $800 U.S. while a Canon M5 with a decent prime lens is about $950. The pixel-3 has a FAAAAAAAR more powerful CPU, MUCH better touch screen and much MORE IQ !!! The person I have direct contact for the 2/3rds inch and APS-C Super-Smartphones have specifically stated that their INITIAL bulk price for the 33 megapixel (DCI-8K 8192 x 4320 pixel) Bayer sensors that are fast enough for 60 fps AND ARE GLOBAL SHUTTER, are in the range of $130 US for the 2/3rd inch CMOS sensor and $200 US for APS-C version. They are video-centric 4:4:4 60 fps at up to 16 bits per channel with low-light high-sensitivity photosites and all initial DSP onboard. Those bulk wholesale prices are a tad expensive these days BUT for any other CMOS manufacturer you can actually DOUBLE that wholesale price!

I think you can GUESS who it is we are taking about, soooooooo it is the INCLUSION of the 10,000+ mAh battery to the new large-sensor super-smartphones which will will ALL the difference in terms of usability of such a high end imaging system. A Qualcomm Snapdragon 855 is EASILY ABLE to do full video processing and compression of DCI-8K (8192 x 4320 pixel) 60 fps RGBA 64-bit colour video and 60 fps burst-rate stills but until recently, BATTERY LIFE has always been the limiting factor!

So it is by merely thickening the phone to a still-acceptable level and adding a MUCH LARGER and LONGER LASTING BATTERY, users can have BOTH a personal super-computer AND a super-resolution mid-range APS-C camera for $1500 and less!

.

WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT ??? !!!

.
 
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Jack Jian

I'm New Here
Feb 14, 2018
14
14
I don't think I've lost the concept of segmentation at all. In fact, I'm well aware of Canon's segmentation in their lineup and don't disagree with it. I do believe that getting more advanced features is worth more money and have no issue with that. But suggesting that the 23.976 frame rate aka 24p was removed as a way to segment the rp from it's competitors in Canon's stable is seems like purposefully removing a standard feature. Here's a few of Canon's other cameras that can do 24p at 1080: SL2, t7, t7i, 80d, 77d, 70d, 7D, 7Dii, 6D, 6Dii, 5Dii, 5Diii, 5Div, EOS R, etc. Even the 4000D, Canon's cheapest DSLR, can do 24p at 1080. Based on that list I'm confident that Canon has even more cameras that can do it, I'm just tired of verifying each camera one at a time. I really have a hard time thinking than Canon is using the lack of 1080/24 on the RP as a way to protect all those other cameras. Having this seetting as an option on what seems to be every other DSLR or mirrorless they make (below or above the RP in Canon's segmentation) indicates that it should be considered a standard feature.

My point is that most of Canon's segmentation is based on adding hardware (which adds cost), or new tech (which is unavailable at lower segmented camera bodies). This is neither - it's removal of a standard feature which removes no cost, and is available in ever other ILC Canon makes.

Further, video isn't something I worry about a lot as I'm really just a stills photographer. My issue here is that removal of 24 at 1080 is out of character for Canon as there is no reasonable excuse for doing so. I think we can explain away other missing features from any camera Canon makes with good sense: i.e. 4k uncropped on full frame was not feasible with proper heat management and weather sealing, or adding a second card slot to the R would add cost - those things make sense. Omission of 24p at 1080 does not make sense.
Completely Agree with you that removing 24fps in 1080 doesn't make any "sense", from consumer's (enthusiast/Pro) point of view. But if you think "Business" and from Canon's marketing point of view, they are doing a hell of excellent job with this 'Segmentation' LOL

Also, I remember in one of their interview, (I think, not sure, with DPreview), a Canon Rep answering YES to a question: Will there be a more cheaper R FF body than the RP?
Just waiting on that to see what's more to be removed..haha...but I am fine as I am concerned with photography only and is okay with 6D level DR, 4fps with fully touch screen. All I need is the DPAF to avoid the PITA AFMA requirement for lenses in DSLR.
 
Dec 20, 2016
6
0
Is your forum making questions and answers? Why are you deleting some constructives moods? I'm a canon fanboy, 3 bodies, 11 lenses, explain here why, please? 90% of canon's users want a 90D, a 6d3 and a 5d5. What's wrong here??
 

canonical

EOS 80D
Jul 3, 2019
103
82
90% of canon's users want a 90D, a 6d3 and a 5d5. What's wrong here??
your assumption is wrong. only few Canon customers want a 5D5 or 90D, hardly anyone wants a 6D3.

vast majority wants compact, decent and affordable mirrorfree cameras like M50 II, M5/M6 II and a low-cost RP II (at $ 999), hi-rez RS-5 (2019) and action-oriented RX-1 (2020).

end of slapping mirrors is near. :)
 
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Quirkz

EOS 80D
Oct 30, 2014
131
49
I can't imagine why anyone would prefer an M over one of FujiFIlm's little "pocket rockets" but they do. Just another one of life's mysteries I suppose.
Owning a Fuji x-e3, and until recently, having owned the m5, I can answer:

1. Price vs performance. The Fuji is great, The lens selection excellent, but expensive.
2. Canon colors. This is a personal preference, as I know some prefer the Fuji, but I much prefer the canon colors, and they also match the output of my 5d4 - no post processing when using both. I also find the greens just a little off on the Fuji.
3. I found the AF just a little more reliable on the M5 - more misses when using the Fuji that we’re only apparent later
4. Fuji lenses are, in general, quite a bit more portable than full frame, but not always (16-55, or 100-400 are surprising large, for example). The M5 lenses are all wonderfully light and compact compared to their Fuji counterparts apart from a few exceptions like the 18-55 & 28mm 2.8

So why did I keep the Fuji and sell the m5?
1. Honestly? GAS.we all like new toys.
2. Fuji lens lineup more extensive, and canon didn’t seem committed. (This has changed, especially with sigma now involved)
3. Most importantly, the Fuji+28mm pancake combo was pocketable, like my original eos m+22mm. The m5+22 was not.

Food for thought.- When I sold the m5, I kept my 22mm and 11-22 lens, selling only the 18-150 - I knew that it was inevitable I’d be back with an m series camera in the future, and these two lenses were favorites.

And since getting the RP, the Fuji didn’t come out of my bag once on my last trip. The RP is just that much better, and sacrifices just a little portability (can’t be squeezed in to a jacket pocket - which doesn’t happen in the summer anyway.)
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,234
158
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
your assumption is wrong. only few Canon customers want a 5D5 or 90D, hardly anyone wants a 6D3.

vast majority wants compact, decent and affordable mirrorfree cameras like M50 II, M5/M6 II and a low-cost RP II (at $ 999), hi-rez RS-5 (2019) and action-oriented RX-1 (2020).

end of slapping mirrors is near. :)
@Romain, @canonical:

While I always like the direct path of DSLRs more the advantages of mirrorless cameras are evitable: Really great AF reliability (while maybe not the highest AF speed with Canon), digital spirit systems implemented just in cheap cameras (it'2 a 2 $ sensor chip and maybe hundred lines of code), less mechanical parts, 100% viewfinder in the (more or less) cheapo M50, unprecedented speed (in low cost cameras) due to omitting the mirror, no eye damage if the sun is in the image (wanted or accidentally), etc.

The only downside I see is the high power consumption.

Now I am more than satisfied with the M50s IQ, flexibility, speed, small weight and size and I am really thinking of a 2nd one to have my two body - two lens setup:
M50 + EF-S 10-22 / M50 + EF-M 32
M50 + EF-M32 / M50 + 60/100 2.8 Macro
M50 + EF-M32 / M50 + 70-200 4.0 IS
with a 2nd adaptor
M50 + EF-S 10-22 / M50 + 60 2.8 Macro
Both bodies fit easily in a small photo backpack with room for more, e.g. an audio recorder with two microphones.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
344
140
===

Yet I can buy a super high end Google Pixel-series phone for less than a $800 U.S. while a Canon M5 with a decent prime lens is about $950. The pixel-3 has a FAAAAAAAR more powerful CPU, MUCH better touch screen and much MORE IQ !!! The person I have direct contact for the 2/3rds inch and APS-C Super-Smartphones have specifically stated that their INITIAL bulk price for the 33 megapixel (DCI-8K 8192 x 4320 pixel) Bayer sensors that are fast enough for 60 fps AND ARE GLOBAL SHUTTER, are in the range of $130 US for the 2/3rd inch CMOS sensor and $200 US for APS-C version. They are video-centric 4:4:4 60 fps at up to 16 bits per channel with low-light high-sensitivity photosites and all initial DSP onboard. Those bulk wholesale prices are a tad expensive these days BUT for any other CMOS manufacturer you can actually DOUBLE that wholesale price!

I think you can GUESS who it is we are taking about, soooooooo it is the INCLUSION of the 10,000+ mAh battery to the new large-sensor super-smartphones which will will ALL the difference in terms of usability of such a high end imaging system. A Qualcomm Snapdragon 855 is EASILY ABLE to do full video processing and compression of DCI-8K (8192 x 4320 pixel) 60 fps RGBA 64-bit colour video and 60 fps burst-rate stills but until recently, BATTERY LIFE has always been the limiting factor!

So it is by merely thickening the phone to a still-acceptable level and adding a MUCH LARGER and LONGER LASTING BATTERY, users can have BOTH a personal super-computer AND a super-resolution mid-range APS-C camera for $1500 and less!

.

WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT ??? !!!

.
Well, most people would balk at thickening their phone by that much. Don’t believe it? Just understand that Motorola came out with a phone recently with a super large battery, and it went nowhere. People want thin phones, no matter how much they like to complain about a camera bump. They don’t want them to be heavier either. They will certainly never accept an APS-C type smartphone. That was tried years ago, and it also failed.

they (we) want a slim smartphone that, without giving up more than a mm, or so, of thickness, has better battery life, a small camera. module, that using advanced computational photography, gives much better results. They don’t want to spend $1500 to get it.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
416
30
Well, most people would balk at thickening their phone by that much. Don’t believe it? Just understand that Motorola came out with a phone recently with a super large battery, and it went nowhere. People want thin phones, no matter how much they like to complain about a camera bump. They don’t want them to be heavier either. They will certainly never accept an APS-C type smartphone. That was tried years ago, and it also failed.

they (we) want a slim smartphone that, without giving up more than a mm, or so, of thickness, has better battery life, a small camera. module, that using advanced computational photography, gives much better results. They don’t want to spend $1500 to get it.
===

Well then, the MARKET will have to decide! Red sold quite a few Hydrogen phones at $1500 and Huaweii is selling MILLIONS of the $1000+ versions of the P30 in various markets OTHER than the USA !!! So people WILL likely buy a thick and expensive phone if it is validly seen to be actually ABLE to replace two different items and combine them into one slick package.

And based what I have seen so far, I think the 2/3rd inch and APS-C supersmartphone have a legitimate ability to grab some decent market share even at their loft prices and thickness.

In terms of the Motorola, you have to understand that the USA is NOW a pip-squeak market compared to China or Europe where teh Big Boys sell 10x the number of phones compared to just the USA! The super-thick Doogee S60 and S90 series or Blackview BV5800 rugged phones are ALSO SELLING IN THE MILLIONS in those markets! You just have NOT heard of them because they just have NOT arrived in the western markets.

To put it in perspective, the Doogee S60 by the end of just tonight will have sold 20,000 copies! It means people are WILLING to buy THICK rugged phones! Maybe not in the USA but certainly in the much larger and much MORE IMPORTANT China, Euro, South-Asia, India markets! That's nearly 15 MILLION thick rugged phones by the end of the year for just ONE model!

.
 

Ricardo_fon

I'm New Here
Mar 19, 2019
12
6
===

Well then, the MARKET will have to decide! Red sold quite a few Hydrogen phones at $1500 and Huaweii is selling MILLIONS of the $1000+ versions of the P30 in various markets OTHER than the USA !!! So people WILL likely buy a thick and expensive phone if it is validly seen to be actually ABLE to replace two different items and combine them into one slick package.

And based what I have seen so far, I think the 2/3rd inch and APS-C supersmartphone have a legitimate ability to grab some decent market share even at their loft prices and thickness.

In terms of the Motorola, you have to understand that the USA is NOW a pip-squeak market compared to China or Europe where teh Big Boys sell 10x the number of phones compared to just the USA! The super-thick Doogee S60 and S90 series or Blackview BV5800 rugged phones are ALSO SELLING IN THE MILLIONS in those markets! You just have NOT heard of them because they just have NOT arrived in the western markets.

To put it in perspective, the Doogee S60 by the end of just tonight will have sold 20,000 copies! It means people are WILLING to buy THICK rugged phones! Maybe not in the USA but certainly in the much larger and much MORE IMPORTANT China, Euro, South-Asia, India markets! That's nearly 15 MILLION thick rugged phones by the end of the year for just ONE model!

.
Phones have already killed the point and shoot. But I still don't think they're going to move into this sector that easily. There's more to it than just the end result. What about ergonomics, controls, lenses, speed of use, looking professional in front of clients and just enjoyment (which is why my film cameras still get used – a heart over head choice).

I hope you're wrong – but I'll also be looking out for the "I told you so". Remember the S4 Zoom?
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
416
30
Phones have already killed the point and shoot. But I still don't think they're going to move into this sector that easily. There's more to it than just the end result. What about ergonomics, controls, lenses, speed of use, looking professional in front of clients and just enjoyment (which is why my film cameras still get used – a heart over head choice).

I hope you're wrong – but I'll also be looking out for the "I told you so". Remember the S4 Zoom?
---

For large-sensor super-smartphones to TRULY kill point-n-shoot and even Canon 5D/6D/M5/M5/M50 cameras, it will HIGHLY DEPEND on the quality of the lens itself (i know the TWO smartphones have a 2x optical zoom so that's good!). It was actually an easy thing to do engineering-wise to get the 2/3rds inch and APS-C sensors themselves into the phones once they were made thicker and larger BUT I have some "Unknown Unknowns" regarding the lens elements themselves.

All I know is they are fairly wide angle and use VERY depth-compact elements to get their quality because the face is TRULY FLAT AND FLUSH on the back of the large sensor smartphones. The large multimedia manufacturer did this because a durable plastic box containing a handgrip, a flush external lens mount, an external recording SSD tray and a large battery mount WILL be made available at the same time of introduction to give the super smartphones Black Magic pocket 4k functionality at a cheaper price! Software and IQ is a NON-ISSUE because both phones use a Qualcomm Snapdragon 855+ type of CPU chip which is MORE than powerful enough to do 60 fps DCI 8k video (8192x4320 pixels at Cinema 1:89:1 aspect ratio) and 50.3 megapixel (8192 x 6144 pixels) at full 4:3 aspect ratio 30 to 60 fps burst rates.

In terms of patents I have seen, there are fairly recent and noted compound curve lens elements that CAN be used to ensure proper focal plane focus in a phone that is as thin as 9 or 10 mm thick for a 2/3rd inch sensor AND as thin as 15mm thick for an APS-C sensor! That 15mm thickness is right on the optical limits for proper sensor focal plane focus and would require special Hyper-HAD style microlenses over each CMOS sensor photosite to achieve a 15mm or less thickness for an APS-C sized imaging chip! I am assuming that combining THAT sensor size and a DCI 4K screen (4096 x 2160) is probably WHY the both phones were filled-out with extra battery space! For 2/3rds inch, you need about 7000 mAh and APS-C REQUIRES a minimum of 10,000 mAh batteries to get normal all-day usage!

.
We shall see!
.
 
Last edited:

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,055
290
Phones have already killed the point and shoot. But I still don't think they're going to move into this sector that easily. There's more to it than just the end result. What about ergonomics, controls, lenses, speed of use, looking professional in front of clients and just enjoyment (which is why my film cameras still get used – a heart over head choice).

I hope you're wrong – but I'll also be looking out for the "I told you so". Remember the S4 Zoom?
The availability of camera phones can affect replacement sales at all levels

At any level of camera specs a possibly substantial portion of camera buyers are buying more camera performance than they need. As phone cameras get better and better, these are the buyers that decide a phone is all they need (in addition to the camera they already have). This can affect upgrade sales at all levels. At higher spec levels, higher proportions of sales are upgrade sales. So the availability of camera phones can affect camera sales at higher levels of camera specs.

Possibly, an even more important factor in reducing the sales of higher level cameras may be that fewer and fewer are interested in printing prints on paper, and that too may affect sales at higher spec levels.

Also, as camera specs get better, fewer people feel the need to replace the camera they already have, especially older people like me.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
727
76
If true, it's about time Canon implemented no crop 4K and high frame rates in slow motion. But will be worthless unless they also give people 24p and a decent codec.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
344
140
===

Well then, the MARKET will have to decide! Red sold quite a few Hydrogen phones at $1500 and Huaweii is selling MILLIONS of the $1000+ versions of the P30 in various markets OTHER than the USA !!! So people WILL likely buy a thick and expensive phone if it is validly seen to be actually ABLE to replace two different items and combine them into one slick package.

And based what I have seen so far, I think the 2/3rd inch and APS-C supersmartphone have a legitimate ability to grab some decent market share even at their loft prices and thickness.

In terms of the Motorola, you have to understand that the USA is NOW a pip-squeak market compared to China or Europe where teh Big Boys sell 10x the number of phones compared to just the USA! The super-thick Doogee S60 and S90 series or Blackview BV5800 rugged phones are ALSO SELLING IN THE MILLIONS in those markets! You just have NOT heard of them because they just have NOT arrived in the western markets.

To put it in perspective, the Doogee S60 by the end of just tonight will have sold 20,000 copies! It means people are WILLING to buy THICK rugged phones! Maybe not in the USA but certainly in the much larger and much MORE IMPORTANT China, Euro, South-Asia, India markets! That's nearly 15 MILLION thick rugged phones by the end of the year for just ONE model!

.
Really? How many of those crappy phones that were panned by everyone, with a terrible camera, and an even worse screen, did RED sell? Was it more than 1? More than a dozen?

is also like to see some actual evidence as to how well the P30 is selling, and where.

actually, you’re wrong on sales numbers as well. Chinese mostly buy low cost phones, and even with the problems caused by trade tensions and the arrest of the Huawei CFO, Apple still sells more high end phones there than anyone else.

you have some strange ideas, and some strange numbers. It’s not like,y the Doogee will sell even a million, possibly not even a half million—if that, and that’s stretching it.

also, would you please stop using caps so often, it’s really annoying?
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
416
30
Really? How many of those crappy phones that were panned by everyone, with a terrible camera, and an even worse screen, did RED sell? Was it more than 1? More than a dozen?

is also like to see some actual evidence as to how well the P30 is selling, and where.

actually, you’re wrong on sales numbers as well. Chinese mostly buy low cost phones, and even with the problems caused by trade tensions and the arrest of the Huawei CFO, Apple still sells more high end phones there than anyone else.

you have some strange ideas, and some strange numbers. It’s not like,y the Doogee will sell even a million, possibly not even a half million—if that, and that’s stretching it.

also, would you please stop using caps so often, it’s really annoying?

---

My HK friend owns one of the Top-5 mobile phone Business-to-Business reseller chains in China and he is selling over 10,000 Doogee S60's and similar IP-67/IP-68 Rugged phones per day to various companies and group buys (he only sells wholesale lots at 10 phones minimum per order!) That's almost 4 million rugged phones per year!

The Huaweii P30 sold 10 million phones in less than 85 days!

Where the HELL are you getting your sales data from? The largest smart phone sales leaders in China are Huaweii, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, and ONLY THEN is Apple at number 5!

Apple has NOWHERE NEAR the sales of high phones as Huweii or Xiaomi who are the LARGEST Flagship-level phone sales leaders!

You REALLY NEED TO PHYSICALLY goto China and SEE what is actually selling! And it DEFINITELY is NOT Apple as the high end phone sales leader! That belongs to Huawei and Xiaomi. Time to get your story straight cuz YOU are WAAAAAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD !!! I get my sales data straight from the horse's mouth IN CHINA! You are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG in your assertions!!!!

.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
416
30
Well, most people would balk at thickening their phone by that much. Don’t believe it? Just understand that Motorola came out with a phone recently with a super large battery, and it went nowhere. People want thin phones, no matter how much they like to complain about a camera bump. They don’t want them to be heavier either. They will certainly never accept an APS-C type smartphone. That was tried years ago, and it also failed.

they (we) want a slim smartphone that, without giving up more than a mm, or so, of thickness, has better battery life, a small camera. module, that using advanced computational photography, gives much better results. They don’t want to spend $1500 to get it.
===

Again, the USA is a PIP-SQUEAK MARKET in terms of mobile sales! It no longer matters!

The TOP WORLDWIDE phone companies are in in the following order:

1) Huaweii

2) Samsung

3) Apple

4) Xiaomi

5) Oppo

In China itself Apple is only number 5 with Huawei taking the number one spot for flagship-level phones!

It is VERY COMMON to see 6.6 inch and larger phones in China! VERY few people like the small phones:


NOBODY who is ANYBODY in China wants a dinky small phone! It's GO BIG OR GO HOME !!!!

In China, I see TONS of people with $20,000 US Vertus or $7000 Russian smartphones or the $2000 US Super-Flagships that aren't even IN the USA! You people HAVE UTTERLY NO CLUE what goes on in the rest of the world! If you use the Purchasing Power Metric where if you take 300 common household items and services and compare the AVERAGE Chinese and USA citizen's cost of the items in question and what percentage it takes out of the AVERAGE yearly income, China's economy is ALREADY the Number One in the world in terms of Consumer Purchasing Power.

Using U.S. Dollars and Purchase Power Equivalency, the U.S.'s GDP (Gross Domestic Product) is forecast in 2019 to be $21 Trillion Dollars! The Absolute GDP value for China is $14 Trillion U.S. BUT ... when converting for Purchase Power Equivalency irrespective of currency value translations, the ACTUAL GDP for China is like $35 Trillion U.S. There's people so rich in China it is PASSE to be buying an Apple iPhone X max when a $20,000 Vertu has TRUE Cachet!

AND the largest phone seller in China is an Honor near-flagship phone which is QUITE a bit ahead of what the US has!

The USA has more people in ABSOLUTE 2nd and 3rd World poverty than China does! The 700 Million people STILL in the Chinese Hinterlands cooking in concrete boxes with microwaves STILL HAVE GREATER equivalent purchasing power than MANY in the southeast and midwest USA. It is the USA that is now a 2nd and 3rd world impoverished nation with 52% of it's population in actual living paycheque-to-paycheque near poverty-level living conditions! These people in the USA CANNOT afford the Top-Selling Honor smartphone in China WHILE in China nearly everyone has something very similar to it!

NO! No! and Double No! The USA HAS NOWHERE NEAR the smartphone sales numbers of China!

Again, YOU PEOPLE REALLY NEED to actually GOTO China to see what is actually SELLING THERE and what people are actually using ON THE STREET --- It Ain't Apple Gear and They DO NOT LIKE USING SMALL smartphones in China !!!

.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,040
375
Again, YOU PEOPLE REALLY NEED to actually GOTO China to see what is actually SELLING THERE and what people are actually using ON THE STREET --- It Ain't Apple Gear and They DO NOT LIKE USING SMALL smartphones in China !!!
Yah man, collecting anecdotes is always preferable to data.
 
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Aug 1, 2017
329
189
System compatibility. I can carry an M and use the lenses I have with me as a backup. Flash system, I can use my extensive flash system with the M. If I want to use an exotic lens for some special purpose I already have it. For many users even batteries and chargers are interchangeable.

That kind of think is very difficult to put a value on but makes the experience of living with a system very different. When I transitioned to EOS from FD I was carrying two systems, I swore off ever doing that again!
Yes, I totally get the value of an M as a complement to an existing Canon kit. Nobody does system compatibility better than Canon.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
344
140
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My HK friend owns one of the Top-5 mobile phone Business-to-Business reseller chains in China and he is selling over 10,000 Doogee S60's and similar IP-67/IP-68 Rugged phones per day to various companies and group buys (he only sells wholesale lots at 10 phones minimum per order!) That's almost 4 million rugged phones per year!

The Huaweii P30 sold 10 million phones in less than 85 days!

Where the HELL are you getting your sales data from? The largest smart phone sales leaders in China are Huaweii, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, and ONLY THEN is Apple at number 5!

Apple has NOWHERE NEAR the sales of high phones as Huweii or Xiaomi who are the LARGEST Flagship-level phone sales leaders!

You REALLY NEED TO PHYSICALLY goto China and SEE what is actually selling! And it DEFINITELY is NOT Apple as the high end phone sales leader! That belongs to Huawei and Xiaomi. Time to get your story straight cuz YOU are WAAAAAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD !!! I get my sales data straight from the horse's mouth IN CHINA! You are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG in your assertions!!!!

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I doubt those numbers. I’m not reading what you’re stating. You’re looking at overall sales numbers. I said that most phones in China are low cost, but that Apple is the bigg4est seller of high end phones. That’s true.

And please grow up, and stop the caps. Whats your problem?
 
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