Canon EOS 5DS Replacements Coming Next Year [CR2]

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
214
25
New Zealand
Talys said:
I will almost certainly buy this if it has:

- Swivel screen
- 6fps+
- 15+ picture buffer at full uncompressed resolution

I don't think that is too much to ask for, right? :)

This would really be slightly disappointing if they couldn't exceed those expectations. I can see the fps staying low on account of the 5dmk4, but the buffer should be easy to improve.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,075
356
Vancouver, BC
Isaacheus said:
Talys said:
I will almost certainly buy this if it has:

- Swivel screen
- 6fps+
- 15+ picture buffer at full uncompressed resolution

I don't think that is too much to ask for, right? :)

This would really be slightly disappointing if they couldn't exceed those expectations. I can see the fps staying low on account of the 5dmk4, but the buffer should be easy to improve.

I expect they should exceed that, but a lot of things like fps and buffer depend on resolution. If it is 60 megapixels and 8fps, I'll be happy, and if it is 80 megapixels and 6fps, I'll be happy too.

The fps/buffer/buffer clear speeds matter too, as well as with inexpensive 90MB/s UHS-1 cards. I don't mind buying 1 or 2 expensive cards, but I would like the camera to be usably responsive with cheap cards too.

Also, CR3 support - let's see what that nets us. And, sorry, one more thing, a better crop mode than the current 5DS.

At the end of the day, though, I would have bought 5DSR or 5D4 had either been given an articulating screen, and I still think both are great cameras, so that is 90% of my wishlist anyhow. The 5DSR also currently feels sluggish, but I expect they will fix that.
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,829
1,121
My wish - although without much hope -

5D4 capabilities and sensor technology and no more than 60Mpixel (even better to stay to 50) so as to have significant improvement in fps (= 7 fps) and reasonable capability to empty the buffer.

50 is more than enough especially if you combine it with a 5D4 like sensor, touch screen, DPAF and GPS.
I would like CF + SD II to excel in compatibility (Have you read about various CFAST card issues and I am not talking about the Sandisk 1dxIi fix) and have reasonable speed at the same time.

As I said just dreaming. I feel these are reasonable requirements but I do not believe they will happen.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,075
356
Vancouver, BC
tron said:
My wish - although without much hope -

5D4 capabilities and sensor technology and no more than 60Mpixel (even better to stay to 50) so as to have significant improvement in fps (= 7 fps) and reasonable capability to empty the buffer.

50 is more than enough especially if you combine it with a 5D4 like sensor, touch screen, DPAF and GPS.
I would like CF + SD II to excel in compatibility (Have you read about various CFAST card issues and I am not talking about the Sandisk 1dxIi fix) and have reasonable speed at the same time.

As I said just dreaming. I feel these are reasonable requirements but I do not believe they will happen.

I'm totally with you. Add a floppy screen, and I'm in.
 

justawriter

EOS 90D
Sep 17, 2012
142
48
unfocused said:
I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

Um, have you considered the meaning of the term "rumor site"? If you want certainty in what Canon is planning for the next 18 months, I suggest you get a job as a Canon executive in charge of new cameras.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,408
883
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
I don't think there's a hope in hell that this will be a 120mpx camera.

The competition haven't even yet beaten 50mpx, Sony has settled at 42mpx without feeling the need to go higher, and 120mpx will simply be even more demanding of the quality of your glass with inter-copy variation even on L lenses starting to make it difficult to know which lenses are worth buying or not.

So, other than specialist devices I doubt we'll ever see 120mpx full-frame (or APS-H) in a regular camera body.

60mpx is the sweet spot because it's using the tried and tested dot pitch from 24mpx APS-C cameras. Why spend more R&D creating new sized sensors when you don't need to?

So I'm pretty sure we'll see 60mpx, DPAF, 4K video with approx 10% horizontal crop (1:2 scaling), wifi, touch screen and all the other modern upgrades. Doubt it will have a tilty screen, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't identical to the Canon 5DIV case in the same way thhe 5DSR was related to the 5D III.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
jolyonralph said:
So I'm pretty sure we'll see 60mpx, DPAF, 4K video with approx 10% horizontal crop (1:2 scaling), wifi, touch screen and all the other modern upgrades. Doubt it will have a tilty screen, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't identical to the Canon 5DIV case in the same way thhe 5DSR was related to the 5D III.

There is also on sensor ADC technology to think about, as we discovered with the 6DII. I wonder if there are any pixel density scaling issues associated with PDAF and on sensor ADC. Canon does seem to be using the same case for all the 5D models but if they are going to make a design change, it has to start somewhere. They could make the change with the new 5DS rather than wait for the 5DV (assuming that there will be a 5DV if the new 5DS has all the goodies we are talking about).
 

danski0224

EOS R
Apr 24, 2011
1,104
12
traveller said:
Canon has evidently done market research and considers that the marginal revenue from making two different high megapixel bodies (1Ds & 5Ds series) wouldn't offset the marginal cost.

I really doubt that this is the reason.

The 1DsIII is still the reigning megapixel count 1D series body- introduced in 2007. Many still believe that it has the best colors from a Canon camera at 100 ISO.

It has been said here and there online that the 1DXII is nearly the equal to the 1DsIII at low ISO, but is still fewer megapixels.

In other words, it has taken 10 years between product releases to (nearly) equal a camera that was introduced in 2007 at 100 ISO. Granted, there is a bunch of other stuff that is better than the 1DsIII on the 1DXII, but those that want ISO 100 image quality probably don't really care about (much of) the other stuff. Like me.

Canon is a conservative company.

The 1DIII AF issues are still mentioned. The 1DX did not AF at f/8 until a firmware update. Loss of the red AF points. No more precision matte screen support. The 1DxII does not have full touchscreen implementation.

I believe that Canon would never release a 1DsIII replacement without testing the waters first. Even the 1DXII can be considered a "half step" improvement, but Canon knows that working pro's need to upgrade their stuff every few years from use.

The 5Ds(R) is that test. A big beta test for sensor manufacturing, whether or not the camera sells, which model sells more numbers, whether or not people buy a camera marketed as a "specialty camera" with ISO limitations. Possibly a test of the Canon DPP software, too. Much cheaper to do this (physical product and reputation) than to release a 1D series body with issues.

Other cameras are bringing together DPAF and touchscreen implementation.

Whenever Canon decides to bring all of this together, it will be pretty sweet.

I would be surprised if there is no equivalent to the 5Ds(R) replacement, but housed in a 1D series body, released between now and 2020. There is no longer a technical excuse to not do it, because the sensor technology today is now proven to move on from the 1DsIII. I bet that whatever is in the pipeline is even better yet.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,846
2,988
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
jolyonralph said:
60mpx is the sweet spot because it's using the tried and tested dot pitch from 24mpx APS-C cameras. Why spend more R&D creating new sized sensors when you don't need to?

That assumes that neither the 7DIII or the 90D will have any increase in megapixel count. I think that's higher unlikely. With the 24mpx sensor now being pushed down to the Rebel line, I expect the 7D, 90D and 5Ds will introduce the next level 28-30 mpx for APS-C and 71-76 mpx for the 5Ds.

BillB said:
Canon does seem to be using the same case for all the 5D models but if they are going to make a design change, it has to start somewhere. They could make the change with the new 5DS rather than wait for the 5DV.

They could, but I suspect the cost of retooling would take much longer to recoup because the 5Ds series only represents a tiny fraction of 5D sales. More cost-effective to wait until you are reworking your bigger selling body.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,846
2,988
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Maiaibing said:
unfocused said:
They could, but I suspect the cost of retooling would take much longer to recoup because the 5Ds series only represents a tiny fraction of 5D sales.

Any facts to back this claim would be very interesting.

Common sense. I can't think why anyone would believe that the sales of the 5Ds series would come anywhere close to those of the 5D.

However, if you want some facts, take a look at the Amazon list of best sellers and try to find a 5Ds on the list. Three 5D models (Two IVs and one III) are in the top 100. Nothing with an "s."

Nothing with an "s" on the B&H best seller list either. A quick Google search on best selling DSLRs yields plenty of 5D models but again, nothing with an 's."

You can't really believe the 's' series would ever come close to matching the standard 5D?
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,846
2,988
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
justawriter said:
unfocused said:
I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

Um, have you considered the meaning of the term "rumor site"? If you want certainty in what Canon is planning for the next 18 months, I suggest you get a job as a Canon executive in charge of new cameras.

Um...perhaps you should spend a little more time understanding what Canon Rumors is all about. CR Guy has built a reputation for having inside sources who slip him meaningful tidbits. There is a rating system to evaluate the validity of the rumors.

His reputation is based on his ability to sort through the rumors and separate the wheat from the chaff. My point was simply that in this case there seemed to be a lot of stringing together unrelated information and making something new out of it. That's out of character.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
unfocused said:
justawriter said:
unfocused said:
I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

Um, have you considered the meaning of the term "rumor site"? If you want certainty in what Canon is planning for the next 18 months, I suggest you get a job as a Canon executive in charge of new cameras.

Um...perhaps you should spend a little more time understanding what Canon Rumors is all about. CR Guy has built a reputation for having inside sources who slip him meaningful tidbits. There is a rating system to evaluate the validity of the rumors.

His reputation is based on his ability to sort through the rumors and separate the wheat from the chaff. My point was simply that in this case there seemed to be a lot of stringing together unrelated information and making something new out of it. That's out of character.

CR guy said not to long ago that there didn't seem to be much in the way of exciting rumors lately, so he is ls going, as usual, with the best he has, which is likely pretty close to the best there is. CR posters are going to post, because that is what we do--wheat, chaff or whatever. This particular thread is based on a CR2 report that Canon will roll out a replacement for the 5DS in the first half of next year, which isn't a lot to work with, but here we are on page 4. :)
 

I Simonius

I'm New Here
Jan 18, 2013
16
1
as lovely as it would be for huge prints, and as much as I'm a detail hound, etc, I'm cautious because the timer pix will mean less DOF for the same f-stop in landscapes, needing further stopping down and treading on the feet of the circle of confusion, so losing the possible level of top detail- a quandary of higher mp.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,408
883
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
For me I'd be happy for it to continue to be 50 megapixels as long as they can dramatically improve framerate and low ISO performance.

Those are the two critically important things.

Add in DPAF (but that's pretty much a given with new sensors), throw two full speed UHS-II slots in (not one fast and one crippled slot), ditch CF for good (please, please please do NOT put a CFast slot in. I'd like to be able to afford to buy more than one fast card) and we're done.

I don't need tilty screens, I don't need 4K video, but it would be nice, and I certainly don't want it in a 1D factor body (get a grip, people!).
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
unfocused said:
You can't really believe the 's' series would ever come close to matching the standard 5D?

You said a tiny fraction... its certainly not.

Stats on uploaded pic's to the internet point to a current 4:1 ratio for the 5DIV. And I suspect that average posting rate on top is a little lower for the 5DS/R than the 5DIV - even if we can probably discount this in a big numbers game.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
I Simonius said:
as lovely as it would be for huge prints, and as much as I'm a detail hound, etc, I'm cautious because the timer pix will mean less DOF for the same f-stop in landscapes, needing further stopping down and treading on the feet of the circle of confusion, so losing the possible level of top detail- a quandary of higher mp.

Although diffraction causes more loss of detail at the pixel level for a sensor with more pixels, my understanding is that for the same size print, the sensor with more pixels will still produce more detail at the same fstop than a same size sensor with fewer pixels. On a print of the same size, the each pixel on the higher density sensor covers less area on the print than a pixel on the lower density sensor, and this difference has more effect on detail than the greater diffraction effect of the smaller pixels.
 
<-- start Taboola -->