Canon EOS M5 Coming Before Photokina [CR3]

[JamesD]

New here and I will be new to Canon Cameras soon. I have been shopping and researching the M03 for a few weeks but I am now going to hold out and see what the M05 offers. I am looking for a light field type/walk around camera and so far of the C Sensor cameras the M03 checks most of the boxes.

The Sony, a6000 and a6300, despite all its hype has a very limited lens choice. If the M05 can somewhat match it price wise and performance wise, I think it will blow it out of the water with all the great lens choices Canon has. I can't wait to see this camera!

Every Canon lens would work as well on the Sony's as they do on the M3

That is a valid point but now lets compare price points from B&H Photo.

Sony a6000 body only 548.00
Sony a6300 body only 998.00
Canon M3 body only 448.00

With the M3 I have to buy a viewfinder and with the two Sony's I have to buy an adapter to get started. I like what I have seen of the Canons picture quality. I have had them both in my hands. The M3's look and feel is exactly what I am looking for. My style of shooting is outdoors 90% of the time and my subjects are clouds, water, people, and animals.

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

Welcome to CR. At B&H, the M3 + EVF is currently $469. To get this deal, click on the green "build bundle" button beneath the "add to cart" button.

Man, that is very nice price. May be I should switch to M3 from 70d setup for my occasional use.

If you can wait two weeks, the m3 might be even cheaper after the m5 is released.

I will wait for few more weeks and see. What do you think, i am going to miss if I switch to M3 except 7 FPS. Does it have on board flash commander to fire 3rd party flashes. I really liked pics coming out of M3 in Dustin and IR reviews.

The field test at IR were full of very good pictures and what I liked is the shortcomings with burst rate, video etc were not hidden nor were they beat to death. They are real but so is the fact that the M3 takes outstanding pictures at its price point; and when you add in the controls/features, lens choices, and almost range finder like feel of this camera it is in my opinion a great bargain.

There is one major thing about me that differs from a lot of people using cameras today, I don't care one iota about video performance. In fact, if that feature makes the camera less range finder size, take it out completely as far as I am concerned.

M3 or M5, that is my question for September.

 

[9VIII]

Ideally Canon would make a camera body the size of the mount itself.
The "Puck" camera is the future of photography.

You could still have two or three wheel rings going around the entire body for controls, it actually sounds much more convenient.

You must use your camera + big lens very differently to what I'm used to. That's fine, we're all different. But all I can say is, a tiny camera (especially a 'puck' as you call it) would be no good at all for my purposes.

I assume that most people grip the focusing ring while shooting with large lenses instead of keeping your left hand on the tripod foot 100% of the time.

 

[lw]

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

My point was that the M3 wasn't particularly adept with Canon's own EF lenses. (see all the various reports from users)

No one knows yet whether the M5 will be any better. So if you are buying an M because of the fantastic Canon lens choice, then it may not be the ideal match you hope it will be...

Of course it may be much better. Hopefully Canon took that point on board and improved things like the AF for EF lenses. But we just don't know. Many folks high hopes for the M3 were dashed (mine certainly were)

 

[pokerz]

New here and I will be new to Canon Cameras soon. I have been shopping and researching the M03 for a few weeks but I am now going to hold out and see what the M05 offers. I am looking for a light field type/walk around camera and so far of the C Sensor cameras the M03 checks most of the boxes.

The Sony, a6000 and a6300, despite all its hype has a very limited lens choice. If the M05 can somewhat match it price wise and performance wise, I think it will blow it out of the water with all the great lens choices Canon has. I can't wait to see this camera!

Every Canon lens would work as well on the Sony's as they do on the M3

That is a valid point but now lets compare price points from B&H Photo.

Sony a6000 body only 548.00
Sony a6300 body only 998.00
Canon M3 body only 448.00

With the M3 I have to buy a viewfinder and with the two Sony's I have to buy an adapter to get started. I like what I have seen of the Canons picture quality. I have had them both in my hands. The M3's look and feel is exactly what I am looking for. My style of shooting is outdoors 90% of the time and my subjects are clouds, water, people, and animals.

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

James, Sony actually has a greater lens selection for the E mount than Canon had for the M mount.

You can use EF lenses on either camera, but BOTH will require an adapter.

Also, if you like the old school feel, check out Fuji. They have an excellent camera and lens lineup with their X series.

Problem with Sony corp E mount is lens prices. You can buy M3 with 2-3 better quality lenses for the price of Sony 10-18mm. One of the reason I did go with Canon crop is cheap quality glass. So far it is also case with EF-M lens albeit with limited lens selection. Sony crop common walk around lens is 16-70F4 which goes for $700. I bought Sigma 17-50 f2.8 for far less. Sony has nice primes for low light 35mm and 50mm 1.8. Sony doesn't even bother to upgrade kit lens to go with such a promising a6300 release.

In Canon Eosm, we have 1855 and EF-M 15-45 mm F3.5 - 6.3, does Canon bother to grade them ? :-\

Neither sigma HSM nor USM len work well in eosm (Hybrid AF), since they were designed for PDAF.

Lastly, Panasonic, OM, Fuji and Sony lens make premium mirrorless lens, Canon makes _____ lens.

 

[AvTvM]

... Canon know how to make and sell cameras. Period.

Yes, but only to some point.

1. Canon could easily make so much BETTER cameras ... with so little effort. All the way from crippled Rebel to 5D4 and 1DX2. That's irksome from a paying customers's perspective. But Canon Defense League around here prefers to see things as if they were paid Canon lobbyists.

2. Canon does not even build some of the cameras they should be building.
A. high(er)-end APS-C mirrorless body/bodies ... fully competitive or preferably even BETTER than A6300, Fuji XT2 ... all EOS M bodies to date are severly sub-par in performance, simply not good enough, much less "really good or even GREAT ...
B. mirrorless FF system ... fully competitive - or even BETTER - than Sony A7/R II ...

Ever repetitive iterations of (mostly) GOOD, (mostly) big, (mostly) boring mirrorslappers is OK, but certainly *not good enough*. Especially not good enough for a self-declared "industry leader".

From a non-canon-defense investor's point of view it is a shame and totally unnecessary that Canon let Sony and Fuji gain a foothold in the (stills) imaging market at all. Both of these players as well as Oly and Ricoh/Pentax would have been forced out of the market (just like Samsung was), had Canon built not only GOOD mirrorslpappers, but also the RIGHT cameras in GOOD time.

However, that's Canon's problem, not mine. As a customer, I do have alternatives.

 

[asl]

... Canon know how to make and sell cameras. Period.

Yes, but only to some point.

1. Canon could easily make so much BETTER cameras ... with so little effort. All the way from crippled Rebel to 5D4 and 1DX2. That's irksome from a paying customers's perspective. But Canon Defense League around here prefers to see things as if they were paid Canon lobbyists.

2. Canon does not even build some of the cameras they should be building.
A. high(er)-end APS-C mirrorless body/bodies ... fully competitive or preferably even BETTER than A6300, Fuji XT2 ... all EOS M bodies to date are severly sub-par in performance, simply not good enough, much less "really good or even GREAT ...
B. mirrorless FF system ... fully competitive - or even BETTER - than Sony A7/R II ...

Ever repetitive iterations of (mostly) GOOD, (mostly) big, (mostly) boring mirrorslappers is OK, but certainly *not good enough*. Especially not good enough for a self-declared "industry leader".

From a non-canon-defense investor's point of view it is a shame and totally unnecessary that Canon let Sony and Fuji gain a foothold in the (stills) imaging market at all. Both of these players as well as Oly and Ricoh/Pentax would have been forced out of the market (just like Samsung was), had Canon built not only GOOD mirrorslpappers, but also the RIGHT cameras in GOOD time.

However, that's Canon's problem, not mine. As a customer, I do have alternatives.

I agree with this, one would think that Canon given their selection of lenses which seem to have maybe the best price/quality ration out there in many cases. Could have left little room for many of the competitors (for good or bad), if they made a some other/ in some cases better camera bodies. It seems they do not want to (as they are still doing fine), there must obviously be some economic reason they have for this. For people like you and me it might seems strange, but we are probably not in Canons priority group it. Canon defining what should be "god enough" does not cut it, some people seem to think so.

 

[ritholtz]

New here and I will be new to Canon Cameras soon. I have been shopping and researching the M03 for a few weeks but I am now going to hold out and see what the M05 offers. I am looking for a light field type/walk around camera and so far of the C Sensor cameras the M03 checks most of the boxes.

The Sony, a6000 and a6300, despite all its hype has a very limited lens choice. If the M05 can somewhat match it price wise and performance wise, I think it will blow it out of the water with all the great lens choices Canon has. I can't wait to see this camera!

Every Canon lens would work as well on the Sony's as they do on the M3

That is a valid point but now lets compare price points from B&H Photo.

Sony a6000 body only 548.00
Sony a6300 body only 998.00
Canon M3 body only 448.00

With the M3 I have to buy a viewfinder and with the two Sony's I have to buy an adapter to get started. I like what I have seen of the Canons picture quality. I have had them both in my hands. The M3's look and feel is exactly what I am looking for. My style of shooting is outdoors 90% of the time and my subjects are clouds, water, people, and animals.

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

James, Sony actually has a greater lens selection for the E mount than Canon had for the M mount.

You can use EF lenses on either camera, but BOTH will require an adapter.

Also, if you like the old school feel, check out Fuji. They have an excellent camera and lens lineup with their X series.

Problem with Sony corp E mount is lens prices. You can buy M3 with 2-3 better quality lenses for the price of Sony 10-18mm. One of the reason I did go with Canon crop is cheap quality glass. So far it is also case with EF-M lens albeit with limited lens selection. Sony crop common walk around lens is 16-70F4 which goes for $700. I bought Sigma 17-50 f2.8 for far less. Sony has nice primes for low light 35mm and 50mm 1.8. Sony doesn't even bother to upgrade kit lens to go with such a promising a6300 release.

In Canon Eosm, we have 1855 and EF-M 15-45 mm F3.5 - 6.3, does Canon bother to grade them ? :-\

Neither sigma HSM nor USM len work well in eosm (Hybrid AF), since they were designed for PDAF.

Lastly, Panasonic, OM, Fuji and Sony lens make premium mirrorless lens, Canon makes _____ lens.

I am comparing with my 70d set to Canon M vs Sony E. Canon M lens lineup (Assuming Canon EF lens not working properly with M) is limited compared to Sony. But Sony lenses are either expensive or not available in desired FL. If M5 get dpaf, there is a chance of M working better with EF lens.

 

[ritholtz]

New here and I will be new to Canon Cameras soon. I have been shopping and researching the M03 for a few weeks but I am now going to hold out and see what the M05 offers. I am looking for a light field type/walk around camera and so far of the C Sensor cameras the M03 checks most of the boxes.

The Sony, a6000 and a6300, despite all its hype has a very limited lens choice. If the M05 can somewhat match it price wise and performance wise, I think it will blow it out of the water with all the great lens choices Canon has. I can't wait to see this camera!

Every Canon lens would work as well on the Sony's as they do on the M3

That is a valid point but now lets compare price points from B&H Photo.

Sony a6000 body only 548.00
Sony a6300 body only 998.00
Canon M3 body only 448.00

With the M3 I have to buy a viewfinder and with the two Sony's I have to buy an adapter to get started. I like what I have seen of the Canons picture quality. I have had them both in my hands. The M3's look and feel is exactly what I am looking for. My style of shooting is outdoors 90% of the time and my subjects are clouds, water, people, and animals.

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

Welcome to CR. At B&H, the M3 + EVF is currently $469. To get this deal, click on the green "build bundle" button beneath the "add to cart" button.

Man, that is very nice price. May be I should switch to M3 from 70d setup for my occasional use.

If you can wait two weeks, the m3 might be even cheaper after the m5 is released.

I will wait for few more weeks and see. What do you think, i am going to miss if I switch to M3 except 7 FPS. Does it have on board flash commander to fire 3rd party flashes. I really liked pics coming out of M3 in Dustin and IR reviews.

The field test at IR were full of very good pictures and what I liked is the shortcomings with burst rate, video etc were not hidden nor were they beat to death. They are real but so is the fact that the M3 takes outstanding pictures at its price point; and when you add in the controls/features, lens choices, and almost range finder like feel of this camera it is in my opinion a great bargain.

There is one major thing about me that differs from a lot of people using cameras today, I don't care one iota about video performance. In fact, if that feature makes the camera less range finder size, take it out completely as far as I am concerned.

M3 or M5, that is my question for September.

Does it focus during video shooting? I need video AF functionality. Looks like M3 video IQ is little better than 70d output.

Thanks.

 

[AvTvM]

@ritholz: for Canon EOS M camera: all lenses with STM autofocus work just fine, whether it be native EF-M, or EF-S and EF.

Only old design EF lenses (e.g. 50/1.4 with its antiquated, weirdo-from-the-start semi-USM AF drive) do not work very well with EOS M hybrid AF system ...

 

[Loswr]

... Canon know how to make and sell cameras. Period.

Yes, but only to some point.

1. Canon could easily make so much BETTER cameras ... with so little effort. All the way from crippled Rebel to 5D4 and 1DX2. That's irksome from a paying customers's perspective. But Canon Defense League around here prefers to see things as if they were paid Canon lobbyists.

No, some people just see reality as it actually exists, not as it appears in the universe inside our own heads. Doesn't mean we want it to stay that way, just that we are intelligent enough to perceive reality and distinguish it from fantasy.

However, that's Canon's problem, not mine. As a customer, I do have alternatives.

Then why do you keep on desperately begging for Canon to build the specific camera(s) and lens(es) you personally want? Just buy those alternatives and move on... :

 

[Rocky]

Ford makes Continentals and they cripple the Fiesta.

 

[AvTvM]

Then why do you keep on desperately begging for Canon to build the specific camera(s) and lens(es) you personally want? Just buy those alternatives and move on... :

Don't worry, I will - once I need to replace my current gear.

 

[Loswr]

Then why do you keep on desperately begging for Canon to build the specific camera(s) and lens(es) you personally want? Just buy those alternatives and move on... :

Don't worry, I will - once I need to replace my current gear.

Did you tell Canon that? I'm just sure they'll do anything and make any camera you want to keep you as a customer. :

 

[pokerz]

New here and I will be new to Canon Cameras soon. I have been shopping and researching the M03 for a few weeks but I am now going to hold out and see what the M05 offers. I am looking for a light field type/walk around camera and so far of the C Sensor cameras the M03 checks most of the boxes.

The Sony, a6000 and a6300, despite all its hype has a very limited lens choice. If the M05 can somewhat match it price wise and performance wise, I think it will blow it out of the water with all the great lens choices Canon has. I can't wait to see this camera!

Every Canon lens would work as well on the Sony's as they do on the M3

That is a valid point but now lets compare price points from B&H Photo.

Sony a6000 body only 548.00
Sony a6300 body only 998.00
Canon M3 body only 448.00

With the M3 I have to buy a viewfinder and with the two Sony's I have to buy an adapter to get started. I like what I have seen of the Canons picture quality. I have had them both in my hands. The M3's look and feel is exactly what I am looking for. My style of shooting is outdoors 90% of the time and my subjects are clouds, water, people, and animals.

I would be willing to spend the 1000.00 for an M5 that performed on par with the a6300. But if my options are the M3 to get that feel and look vs the a6000, I have already decided on the M3. As an aside, I have never owned a Sony or Canon. I have and in the past owned cameras from Pentax, Panasonic, and Minolta digital and film back when they were in business.

The Canon M3 impressed me as feeling like an old school film camera. I really like that about it and yes I have a little age going on at 58 I really want another major company to give Sony a mirror-less run. Competition feeds quality and price. The M3 is I think a good start for Canon.

If the M5 is out soon enough and is a better camera for speed and picture quality, I will get it; otherwise the M3 will be my next camera.

Welcome to CR. At B&H, the M3 + EVF is currently $469. To get this deal, click on the green "build bundle" button beneath the "add to cart" button.

Man, that is very nice price. May be I should switch to M3 from 70d setup for my occasional use.

If you can wait two weeks, the m3 might be even cheaper after the m5 is released.

I will wait for few more weeks and see. What do you think, i am going to miss if I switch to M3 except 7 FPS. Does it have on board flash commander to fire 3rd party flashes. I really liked pics coming out of M3 in Dustin and IR reviews.

The field test at IR were full of very good pictures and what I liked is the shortcomings with burst rate, video etc were not hidden nor were they beat to death. They are real but so is the fact that the M3 takes outstanding pictures at its price point; and when you add in the controls/features, lens choices, and almost range finder like feel of this camera it is in my opinion a great bargain.

There is one major thing about me that differs from a lot of people using cameras today, I don't care one iota about video performance. In fact, if that feature makes the camera less range finder size, take it out completely as far as I am concerned.

M3 or M5, that is my question for September.

Does it focus during video shooting? I need video AF functionality. Looks like M3 video IQ is little better than 70d output.

Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djOPPQycZ8g
STM vs USM in 70d, just forget the USM lens in Video AFC
u need to invest money in NEW STM lens ;D

 

[crashpc]

Then why do you keep on desperately begging for Canon to build the specific camera(s) and lens(es) you personally want? Just buy those alternatives and move on... :

Don't worry, I will - once I need to replace my current gear.

Did you tell Canon that? I'm just sure they'll do anything and make any camera you want to keep you as a customer. :

Telling aleading manufacturer what to do at the edge of ones jump? Heh, too late. They had enaugh time to see where people want to jump. Jumped few months ago. Sorry Canon, maybe one day in next 10 years.

 

[Loswr]

Then why do you keep on desperately begging for Canon to build the specific camera(s) and lens(es) you personally want? Just buy those alternatives and move on... :

Don't worry, I will - once I need to replace my current gear.

Did you tell Canon that? I'm just sure they'll do anything and make any camera you want to keep you as a customer. :

Telling aleading manufacturer what to do at the edge of ones jump? Heh, too late. They had enaugh time to see where people want to jump. Jumped few months ago. Sorry Canon, maybe one day in next 10 years.

Good for you! Just don't fool yourself into thinking that Canon cares...

 

[rrcphoto]

... Canon know how to make and sell cameras. Period.

Yes, but only to some point.

1. Canon could easily make so much BETTER cameras ... with so little effort. All the way from crippled Rebel to 5D4 and 1DX2. That's irksome from a paying customers's perspective. But Canon Defense League around here prefers to see things as if they were paid Canon lobbyists.

2. Canon does not even build some of the cameras they should be building.
A. high(er)-end APS-C mirrorless body/bodies ... fully competitive or preferably even BETTER than A6300, Fuji XT2 ... all EOS M bodies to date are severly sub-par in performance, simply not good enough, much less "really good or even GREAT ...
B. mirrorless FF system ... fully competitive - or even BETTER - than Sony A7/R II ...

you've obviously never worked in any sort of real world capacity in R&D, development, production,etc have you?

 

[time123]

...
That's irksome from a paying customers's perspective. But Canon Defense League around here prefers to see things as if they were paid Canon lobbyists.
...

LOL The Canon Defense League to save the day! They actually are a real thing though sadly enough. Big businesses do have paid staff - generally contractors/sub-contractors who classify themselves as a "marketing" company - that have multiple accounts on multiple forums pretending to be normal Joe's that simply defend everything about the company or alternatively use every logical fallacy in the book to try to make their product look better when something is actually ridiculous about one of the products they are being paid to defend. That is literally all they do all day for their paychecks. Hello to all you shills reading this!

And that's not also including the non-paid fanboys, as the term goes, who get drummed up (sometimes with a bit of prodding from the paid folks) at the slightest idea that Canon actually is holding back or inferior in any type of way. Just an FYI but cameras are simply a means to and end and ultimately the companies just want your money, which is why competition is good and necessary.

I'll set some bait. Auto-focus point metering anyone? Even entry-level Nikon's like the D5100 from 2011 have this. But it is still exclusive to the 1D series? Really? From a DSLR perspective the Nikon D500 looks pretty sweet and I will be watching to see what Nikon does with the D820/D900. [Brought to you by Nikon, the worlds' greatest camera system!]

As computing processing power grows the companies who are actually willing to innovate, such as the viewfinder in the Fuji XPro 2 (hybrid OVF/EVF), will eventually catch up to if not surpass the current leaders unless the leaders actively step up their game. What also blows me away is that some companies still work on the firmware on cameras that actively add new features and enhance the camera, all for free, even after it is purchased! Not some minor junk either, such as Fuji improving the auto-focus system of the X-T1 along with lots of other useful things (http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n160204.html). Such a novel concept in this day and age. It may be 5-10 years down the road but when you only release a new high-end camera every 5 years it will really come around to bite them sooner than expected. [Brought to you by Fuji, the worlds' greatest camera system!]

I recognize the idea that Canon does what Canon wants and they know they can get hordes of people to buy whatever they put out regardless but realistically from a mid to long term perspective I personally don't believe that gravy train can last forever at this rate. Anyways, just some additional thoughts from a Canon guy who is more than fully invested in the Canon system.

 

[Loswr]

What also blows me away is that some companies still work on the firmware on cameras that actively add new features and enhance the camera, all for free, even after it is purchased! Not some minor junk either, such as Fuji improving the auto-focus system of the X-T1 along with lots of other useful things (http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n160204.html).

Companies like Canon.

5DII – manual audio gain, etc.
7D – a 66% increase in RAW buffer depth, Auto ISO limits, etc.
5DIII – uncompressed HDMI out, f/8 AF, etc.
1D X – f/8 AF, EC in M mode, etc.

So if you are suggesting Canon doesn't add new functionality in old cameras via firmware, it's because either your memory or your knowledge of facts – or both – is badly flawed.

 

[AvTvM]

watch CDL in full swing. ;D