Canon EOS R5 Mark II sensor resolution likely to stick at 45mp but with new AI features [CR2]

[koenkooi]

I'm just saying that most of my friends and family I know think that cameras are hard to use and smartphones have much better image quality in full auto mode. Canon started now to add some computational features to cameras like the R50.

Just the fact that you don’t have a proper camera in your trouser pocket makes it much harder to use! An original EOS M with the 22mm did fit in some of my trousers, that was really useful at conferences, but ‘modern’ mirrorless cameras are very chunky.

And I have trouble accepting that modern cameras can detect birds, planes and superman, but can’t set the aperture to have all detected eyes in acceptable focus! The 90D had something like that, but only in mirror-full mode!

 

[jam05]

Lets be clear, AI firmware code is no substitute for a stacked BSI sensor or hardware. In 2024 AI firmware coding is no real ground breaking addtion to the EOS R5II.

 

[cayenne]

Subscription is something I personally dislike extremely. Buying features is a totally different thing. Just my opinion.

Subscription is a deel killer for me.

I gave up completely on Adobe when they went to subscription model....
I would had to say sometime in the future that I had to give up on Canon due to the same reasons that had nothing to do with actual image quality and hardware performance.

 

[cayenne]

Ok I hear everyone about the subscription thing. The way it’s been done, I don’t think it could be worth it. But what if you could buy the R5 mark II for like $1500 as long as you subscribe for two years at $100 a month? And then with that you get meaningful updates and a direct community connection with canon to workshop new features? Mix that in with significant discounts on products and upgrades and that’s the only way I’d be interested in a subscription.

Simple answer.
NOPE.

 

[cayenne]

I hate subscriptions.

However I would welcome an internet-connection requirement that bricks the camera if declared stolen.

For example every time it connects to internet it restarts an internal counter of X months (user selectable without limit) until bricking and display remaining time at every startup.

Do that and something similar for lens, coordinate the same with other makers, and violent theft of camera gear would go down drastically.

I live in a very safe country but it seems easy to protect your customers safety.

That's what insurance is for....

 

[davidhfe]

What about if tethered shooting was a subscription service? Or being able to do in-camera edits was a subscriptiion fee? Or Generative AI was a subscription add-on to EOS Utility?'Think how does Canon's camera package compete with Google Pixel and magic erase? How does Canon sell more cameras to people when someone with a Google Pixel can do all of these AI feature things to make their pictures look like they want but your expensive Canon camera can't do any of that out of the box? If AI-AF (heh, AiAF!) was a subscription service then you can bet that the people they're targeting are those at the Olympics and other sporting events. Soccer mums and weekender BIFs will just ... IDK... maybe if you could program your Canon camera to prefer to focus on pictures of certain people (ie your kid, so that when you're at their soccer game, it preferentially focuses on your kid and not someone else's) then maybe parents would see added value in THAT. Now it might be that if you can train the camera to discver your kid then you can also train the camera to more easily pick out lions, gorillas, or birds. If the camera knows whats in front of it then it might also make better suggestions in auto-mode, for example if the camera can work out the subject is a person then it might choose an f-stop that'll give at least 6-7 inches for DoF, or more, so that your subject is properly in focus while standing up at the wedding photo shoot.

AI could bring lots of interesting features to a camera, I think the mindset here is very 20th century about what it oculd offer.

I can't see Canon doing $1/1000 photos...

I am hesitant to wade into the subscription argument here, but I’m very opposed to a subscription for anything that’s being done on camera. If Canon wants to charge $20 a month for cloud AI processing or something I have no issues. At the very least, if in camera features are subscription based I expect very regular updates. As much as people complained about adobe moving to subscription, I’ve found creative cloud largely worth it because there is a constant stream of improvements I wouldn’t be getting in a buy once (and pay for upgrades) model.

 

[davidhfe]

Adobe are the big name in town, with mature products that people like to use. That is why people flock to them.

But there's another side to the subscription story that Disney+ and others are finding out: people only pay a subscription for as long as they use it.

What does that mean for my Canon camera? Well if it is $1000 less to buy but there are subscription things I can buy per-month, then I might only buy a 1 month subscription once or twice a year if I only use my camera whien I go on vacation. That Adobe subscription, I might use that all year round becuase I can sit at home and edit photos at almost any time, but my camera, why would I buy a year's subsrciption if I only pull it out to use a couple of times a year?

The other thing folks tend to forget about creative suite was how EXPENSIVE it was. You were paying $2500+ a seat and $600 for upgrades if you needed to maintain licenses. $55 a month for access to the tools I use all the time (PS, Lr, Illustrator) and free one click access to less often used things (InDesign, Premiere, etc) ended up just being too compelling for me.

This is entirely different from the typical iOS app that wants to charge you $10 a month for a very slim “cloud” feature set.

 

[RobbieHat]

Reading your note abut the upcoming R5ii. Sticking to a 45Mp sensor would be disappointing. I know… not everyone really needs the highest possible sensor resolution, and some favor things like fast burst rates more. But there are other cameras for that. The R5 is the ostensible successor to the 5DsR, yet it was already a (small) step backwards in sensor resolution. At a time when competitors are producing higher MP sensors on full frame (and over 100MP on miniMF), it is hard to imagine what AI, etc. developments would make up for the loss of appeal to those of us who print big and do value higher sensor resolution.

I remain hopeful that earlier rumors of higher resolution sensors will still an out in the end. I’ve been sticking with my 50MP 5DsR, waiting to the expected higher resolution R5ii… but I’ll be considering other options if it remains at 45MP.

I am right there with you Dan. I moved from the 5DSR to the R5 and settled for the step back in resolution in exchange for the increase in some other capabilities. An R5II with same resolution does nothing for me and would be very disappointing. Given Nikon and Sony’s offerings with significantly higher resolution and similar capabilities it would be a tough call for me as primarily a landscape photographer to sit on the sidelines and wait.

I am really hoping that Canon addresses the landscape market with a higher resolution (and higher DR if possible) body to match some of the nice RF lenses they have been releasing recently. The 10-20 mm F4, 24-105 mm F2.8 along with the 100-500 all are excellent landscape lenses and focal ranges. Only thing missing is a few fast UWAs to appease the astrophotographers and Canon will serve the needs.

I know all of the Canon is the leader, they are in business, etc. arguments but landscape is still an important photography market to serve.

Bob

 

[P-visie]

I am right there with you Dan. I moved from the 5DSR to the R5 and settled for the step back in resolution in exchange for the increase in some other capabilities. An R5II with same resolution does nothing for me and would be very disappointing. Given Nikon and Sony’s offerings with significantly higher resolution and similar capabilities it would be a tough call for me as primarily a landscape photographer to sit on the sidelines and wait.

I am really hoping that Canon addresses the landscape market with a higher resolution (and higher DR if possible) body to match some of the nice RF lenses they have been releasing recently. The 10-20 mm F4, 24-105 mm F2.8 along with the 100-500 all are excellent landscape lenses and focal ranges. Only thing missing is a few fast UWAs to appease the astrophotographers and Canon will serve the needs.

I know all of the Canon is the leader, they are in business, etc. arguments but landscape is still an important photography market to serve.

Bob

Nikon Z7 I and II, Z8 and Z9 all have 45.7mp sensors, that is no significant difference with the R5 and the rumored specs of the R5 mk II.

 

[MkSprintz]

Definitely far from "desperate"....
Frankly, Adobe is raking it in with ~USD2.5B/quarter revenue from Creative Cloud products. It will be interesting to see their performance when they release 2023 results in March. I still believe that LR/PS is good value for money but Da Vinci Resolve is the best (and cheapest) video editor vs Pro Logic and Premiere Pro.
https://petapixel.com/2023/03/16/adobes-record-revenue-is-why-software-subscriptions-are-inevitable/

The prices for Creative cloud are in line with what one would reasonably pay when buying the physical media from Adobe or even slightly cheaper now. Adobe products were never cheap to begin with.

However when you subscribe and get Adobe Photoshop your edition of Photoshop has every feature of photoshop. You don't have to pay extra for the lasso tool or the crop tool. It's reasonable to expect the full functionality of the product or program in question.


Reasonable expectations are that if you buy a product it will have all the features available expected of that product especially with a camera. You wouldn't be expected to pay monthly to have compatibility with the RF 100-500 lens for example or the expected autofocus capabilities.

Now if they include an Adobe type editor in body as a subscription that's something I could see being reasonable and possibly worthwhile.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Really not sure why people are going overboard with angst over the subscription thing. Yes, BMW tried heated seats as a subscription product. But it's not like they made people subscribe to use the car's transmission or door locks, which is analogous to what some here are suggesting for Canon. Sheesh.

 

[Sporgon]

I am right there with you Dan. I moved from the 5DSR to the R5 and settled for the step back in resolution in exchange for the increase in some other capabilities. An R5II with same resolution does nothing for me and would be very disappointing. Given Nikon and Sony’s offerings with significantly higher resolution and similar capabilities it would be a tough call for me as primarily a landscape photographer to sit on the sidelines and wait.

Do you really believe that going from 50mp to 60mp on FF makes a gnat's whisker of a difference ? 50mp @ 300dpi has an output of 29" on the long side. 60mp is 31.5. Even with your R5 at 45mp try taking an image and increasing the size to 60mp in PS, so that's changing the long side to 9500px and the short side to 6333, and watch how much the image jumps in size. It's minuscule.

 

[john1970]

Really not sure why people are going overboard with angst over the subscription thing. Yes, BMW tried heated seats as a subscription product. But it's not like they made people subscribe to use the car's transmission or door locks, which is analogous to what some here are suggesting for Canon. Sheesh.

You make a very good point. I could also see Canon taking an approach similar to Sony where one can pay a one time fee for specific features such as grid lines, etc. Maybe they would also make DPP a subscription similar to Adobe Photoshop? Looks like we should not expect any new gear from Canon until Q2 at the earliest.

 

[Del Paso]

Really not sure why people are going overboard with angst over the subscription thing. Yes, BMW tried heated seats as a subscription product. But it's not like they made people subscribe to use the car's transmission or door locks, which is analogous to what some here are suggesting for Canon. Sheesh.

BMW's idea of a heated seats subscription just sounds even more ridiculous, most subcompact Korean cars having them as standard equipment. The camera analogy would rather be a subscription for the use of the tilting LCD. ATF or door locks are vital functions, cars wouldn't even sell without them. Unless by a Soviet car kombinat...

 

[becceric]

Interesting; would be cool to have the R5 II with subscription!

Basics:
45mpx sensor but capped to half res when saving to card, IBIS is there but disabled
One-shoot AF
People's Eye AF
Basic speed AF
Battery power cap (camera wouldn't use more then 50% of a battery, then you have to recharge to 100% to use again)
1080p60
4k30
Flipping rear display but locked in place by electromech lock

Subscriptions:
Full 45mpx res - 200$/year
IBIS enabling - 100$/year
Full battery usage over 50% - 80$/year
Enhanced speed AF - 50$/year
Servo AF - 35$/year
Bird AF - 20$/year
Car/Bike/Plane AF - 20$/year
Dog/Cat AF - 10$/year (5$/year if you have at least two dogs and a cat, and can send documents to prove. Subject to approval by Canon)
1080p120 - 20$/year
4k60 - 50$/year
8k - 100$/year
Flip display unlock - 50$/year

Camera must connect to internet PC at least every 2 weeks to check that wasn't hacked, or has Magic Lantern firmware, or anything similar.
Yearly plans goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec, if you join in September you pay full year.
Plans must be renowned by 12pm 1st Jan each year, so you can take pics at new years eve without ruining it; at 12:01pm the camera bricks.
Date/time will not be user selectable, camera will get them by internet when connecting every two weeks, so no way of cheating the camera with date change.
You can actually cut/saw the lock of the display, but the display frame has rfid sensor on the unhinged end, if the sensor is moved away from the camera (so display is flipped) without the proper subscription, camera will know, and first time it connect to internet will not only brick, but overheat and kills its sensor and power processor, rendering it unusable.

It will be fun

Ok, ok. Instead of a subscription, I'll hire someone to take pictures for me.
At least then, I'll have a poor composition scapegoat.

 

[JonS]

BMW used to have an enormous options list, prior to trying the subscription model. Joke in UK was that the least ordered option was turn indicators...

 

[Sporgon]

BMW used to have an enormous options list, prior to trying the subscription model. Joke in UK was that the least ordered option was turn indicators...

Only from people who‘d have BMWs before

 

[Del Paso]

BMW used to have an enormous options list, prior to trying the subscription model. Joke in UK was that the least ordered option was turn indicators...

The lack of turn indicators seems to be a European phenomenon, with the exception of Switzerland.

 

[David_B]

Really not sure why people are going overboard with angst over the subscription thing

Because people don't understand it "And you always fear what you don't understand." -

https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/s3q64c

 

[amorse]

Really not sure why people are going overboard with angst over the subscription thing. Yes, BMW tried heated seats as a subscription product. But it's not like they made people subscribe to use the car's transmission or door locks, which is analogous to what some here are suggesting for Canon. Sheesh.

I think a lot of people have a habit of assuming the worst in many situations when they can't see the whole picture. We've only just seen a rumour that would suggest that some form of subscription is being considered, and in the absence of any actual input from Canon, a lot of people (myself included) are left guessing as to what it could be. There's nothing to worry about until something concrete gets announced, but given some of the strong opinions on subscription services as a whole coming out in the forum, and the propensity for many people to assume the worst, I'm not shocked that there is a lot of anxiety in here. Hopefully it's all misplaced - certainly the best case scenario.