Here are the Canon EOS R7 and Canon EOS R10

[Chaitanya]

EOS-M is not EOS XX0D.

in India I havent seen many people buying EOS-M as much as they bought XX0D series of cameras. R10 visually looks like a XX0D series of camera down to button placement and I suspect most consumers going to shop for camera will end up buying R10.

Ehh, how exactly is over ten seconds of shooting 32MP (C)RAWs at 15 frigging fps disappointing? People's expectations are just insane these days…

I didnt see cRAW no. was looking at RAW no. which seem for both mechanical shutter and electronic shutter are quite low. Only times I really use high speed shooting is to take photos of male frogs calling to get clear image of their vocal sacs fully inflated to clear mess left behind while describing morphology of said species of frog/toad. For those I do need 3-5 secs of buffer just to get that moment right.

 

[Joules]

in India I havent seen many people buying EOS-M as much as they bought XX0D series of cameras. R10 visually looks like a XX0D series of camera down to button placement and I suspect most consumers going to shop for camera will end up buying R10.


I didnt see cRAW no. was looking at RAW no. which seem for both mechanical shutter and electronic shutter are quite low. Only times I really use high speed shooting is to take photos of male frogs calling to get clear image of their vocal sacs fully inflated to clear mess left behind while describing morphology of said species of frog/toad. For those I do need 3-5 secs of buffer just to get that moment right.

If it's just about getting a certain moment, you should be able to simply use the new half press pre-burst mode, which as far as I understand takes images continously and only saves those from the 0.5 seconds just before you pressed the shutter.

0.5s is not much though. If that's the only setting and the viewfinder lag is noticeable, it might be a somewhat risky approach.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

Yes, it comes with 18-150 for an extra £350 in the UK and about the same number of $ and €.
ps that's about a saving of £150 on buying separately.

Yep. I saw it on the BH site. It’s an extra $400 here in the US, not a great savings from the $480 list, but it’s something.

 

[AlanF]

Yep. I saw it on the BH site. It’s an extra $400 here in the US, not a great savings from the $480 list, but it’s something.

Canon's pricing is odd. The kit with the 18-150mm is much better value in the UK than in the US relative to the body alone. I have pre-ordered the kit.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

What was touted here on CR as has been for over a decade, is the end to the M-series. This is not it. Neither of these cameras will replace the mirroless compact M6 mk II. At best Canon has replaced a few Rebels. The average consumers will still say "why when there are smaller compact options"

You sound disappointed that they didn’t announce the discontinuation of all M series today also.

As for “why”, my answer is performance, fast AF, UHS-II slots, and compatibility with RF lenses. Size was never a consideration for me in choosing APS-C (except when I bought an M5 for traveling).

 

[tbgtomcom]

Because there are tariffs that determine camera import pricing, and having that 30minute limit puts them in a different. Because its literally a software thing, they could undo it, but that may cause them issues since they will have then mis-classified the item they imported and sold.

Im honestly surprised at this point that every camera company hasnt just accepted that their digital cams are video cameras and just paid the difference to remove the limit. Especially since a camera with these specs has existed for over 5 years in the market (GH5, etc). The fact they are doing it with these lower priced cameras might be the sign they are finally doing so

So the tariffs only apply to the R5/R6 and not the R3/R7/R10? That makes no sense.

 

[AlanF]

So the tariffs only apply to the R5/R6 and not the R3/R7/R10? That makes no sense.

The 30 minute regulation was dropped by the EU for all cameras a few years back.

 

[tbgtomcom]

The 30 minute regulation was dropped by the EU for all cameras a few years back.

Exactly my point. Why can't they just go ahead and release a firmware update to unlock the R5/R6 then since ALL the other cameras in the new lineup have the limitation removed. Aggravating.

 

[AlanF]

There have been a host of brilliantly thought out reasons by the deepest thinkers here why the R7 is pure garbage. But, they have all missed the fundamental flaw. The lifetime of the mechanical shutter is 200,000 actuations. At 15 fps, that is only 3h 42min of actual shooting. So, for a days birding, I will wear out one in the morning and need a new one in the afternoon. Perhaps, they have reduced the burst size so it will last longer?

 

[Joules]

So the tariffs only apply to the R5/R6 and not the R3/R7/R10? That makes no sense.

They don't apply at all anymore. Source

The limits in most modern Canon cameras are there because Canon has some reason to leave them in. Be it differentiation against the Cinema line or pure laziness. We don't know.

 

[Joules]

There have been a host of brilliantly thought out reasons by the deepest thinkers here why the R7 is pure garbage. But, they have all missed the fundamental flaw. The lifetime of the mechanical shutter is 200,000 actuations. At 15 fps, that is only 3h 42min of actual shooting. So, for a days birding, I will wear out one in the morning and need a new one in the afternoon.

Don't forget that the R7 has a buffer that is too small to store a meaningful amount of images according to those brilliant thinkers you mentioned. So you'll only be shooting 15 fps for tiny fraction of the time, before the buffer fills and speed drops to a crawl. So you can wear out your shutter at a more leisurely pace over much more than just 3.75 hours.

 

[Kharan]

So after reading a bit more about these cameras I not so sure where to place the R10.

The R7 seems pretty straightforward and actually well priced for what it offers. Even if some hoped for a more pro body I think it is a nice balance of features (as lote82 pointed out).

But the R10? IMO too expensive to replace the rebels, but also not a sports or wildlife camera (buffer, weather sealing, battery etc.). There is the RP for the same price which IMO makes more sense, even if its missing some of the new features like 4k video, better AF etc. Nikon Z5 is also not far of price wise. So who is this camera for? What are the competitors? Where does this leave EF-M? It is not so clear for me right now.

I can give you a list of reasons to choose the R10:

• Smallest and lightest available RF body. That counts a lot for some of us.
• Fully-developed ergonomics vís-a-vís the competition, like the A6400, Z50, and the M6II.
• Plenty fast burst, indeed faster than even much more expensive bodies like the E-M1X, GH5II or A6600.
• Better dynamic range than the RP. Also infinitely faster.
• Unlimited, oversampled 4K recording at 10-bit (!).
• Fully articulated screen.
• The same advanced hot shoe that is on the R3 and R5C.
• Decent battery life.
• You get all of this for less than $1,000.

I say it's going to be a big success... well, as big a success can be in these new dark ages of photography. It'll kill almost every Rebel except the T7, which still sees some sales in emergent markets. EF-M is dead as well, except for the M50II, which will probably continue to be sold until ~2024, at which point either the R10 will be discounted, or another, lower-end body will be introduced. The combination of class-leading AF and burst rate, FAS, unlimited 4K, and access to both RF and EF lenses will make it popular. You're probably only thinking of stills, but stills-focused cameras just don't sell that much today. As a hybrid, however, it has a lot of value packed in there.

 

[AlanF]

Don't forget that the R7 has a buffer that is too small to store a meaningful amount of images according to those brilliant thinkers you mentioned. So you'll only be shooting 15 fps for tiny fraction of the time, before the buffer fills and speed drops to a crawl. So you can wear out your shutter at a more leisurely pace over much more than just 3.75 hours.

I had edited my post as you were writing this. Sorry!

 

[neuroanatomist]

So after reading a bit more about these cameras I not so sure where to place the R10.

The R7 seems pretty straightforward and actually well priced for what it offers. Even if some hoped for a more pro body I think it is a nice balance of features (as lote82 pointed out).

But the R10? IMO too expensive to replace the rebels, but also not a sports or wildlife camera (buffer, weather sealing, battery etc.). There is the RP for the same price which IMO makes more sense, even if its missing some of the new features like 4k video, better AF etc. Nikon Z5 is also not far of price wise. So who is this camera for? What are the competitors? Where does this leave EF-M? It is not so clear for me right now.

At launch, the RP with the non -L kit lens was $1700. The R10 with 18-45 kit lens is $1100.

Given the apparent downmarketing on badge/numbering but increasing prices of the lines (90D + $300 = R7), the R10 looks like a step towards the eventual R100 or R1000 that will eventually become price-competitive with entry-level DSLRs (which still comprise nearly half of the cameras that Canon sells).

 

[Hector1970]

There have been a host of brilliantly thought out reasons by the deepest thinkers here why the R7 is pure garbage. But, they have all missed the fundamental flaw. The lifetime of the mechanical shutter is 200,000 actuations. At 15 fps, that is only 3h 42min of actual shooting. So, for a days birding, I will wear out one in the morning and need a new one in the afternoon. Perhaps, they have reduced the burst size so it will last longer?

I just sold my 7DII on MPB, I had no idea what the shutter count was. They did check it : 440,000 was the count. I was quite impressed, it worked perfectly until the day I sold it and physically looked in good condition. Nor sure the R7 will be as robust.

 

[CJudge]

I would not hold my breath

Although I wouldn't bet on it, I'm fairly optimistic. For the R10 to be limit free, while the rest of their R line-up isn't consistent is a bit odd. I would imagine they want maybe half a year of the R5C maintaining that advantage over the R5 and R6, so that anyone who made the switch doesn't feel too irked, and then they'll eventually update the firmware

 

[AlanF]

I just sold my 7DII on MPB, I had no idea what the shutter count was. They did check it : 440,000 was the count. I was quite impressed, it worked perfectly until the day I sold it and physically looked in good condition. Nor sure the R7 will be as robust.

The electronic shutter of the R7 will basically never wear out mechanically. By coincidence, I just sold all my M kit to MPB. Are you in the UK as well?

 

[C4RBON]

Ouch. Not that I have any interest in buying any M-camera, but if I did the M6 II would be the one ... oh wait ... there is no M6 II anymore!

There are still plenty of M6 II in stock.

 

[Lightshooter]

R7 is better than R ?

 

[canonmike]

According to the review on thedigitalpicture, there is no grip positioning holes for a battery grip.

Really. Will have to chk that out. Thx.