Rumoured Canon EOS Rs Specifications [CR1]

[AlanF]

Except that MTF50 is not a measure of resolution. MTF10 is more a measure of resolution, and MTF50 is more a measure of perceived sharpness.

You are correct. However, we would expect them in a first approximation to change in parallel. You have brought out the real geek in me and I have gone to the Imatest test plots they present to calculate the MTF10s. They present their Imatest data at f/4.
MTF50 for 5DSR is 0.322 cy/px, ie 78.8 lp/mm
MTF50 for 5DS is 0.274 cy/px, ie 67 lp/mm, the 5DSR being 17.6% higher (average of horizontal and vertical)
Reading the noisy plots gives:
MTF10 for 5DSR ~0.71 cy/px, ie ~173 lp/mm
MTF10 for 5DS ~0.57 cy/px, ie ~139 lp/mm, the 5DSR being ~25% higher.

https://www.optyczne.pl/324.4-Test_aparatu-Canon_EOS_5Ds_Rozdzielczość.html
https://www.optyczne.pl/312.4-Test_aparatu-Canon_EOS_5Ds__R_Rozdzielczość.html

 

[jayphotoworks]

Market analysis and hard data will win, Canon spend millions of dollars a year on both, they will release IBIS if and when they project it is financially advantageous for them to do it. Several anonymous forum posters, even if they numbered in the dozens, amount to less than a mosquito bite on an elephant and are neither authoritative nor have a value from an accurate market analysis point of view.

Yes, but also, within the FF segment which has a specific demographic (~10% of the overall camera market share), Sony has taken both Nikon and Canon's lead this last year outselling both its competitors FF MILC and FF DSLR bodies combined in quantity and value via BCN in Japan. Those buyers MUST clearly find something appealing with Sony's FF products to show that kind of growth even when they are continually criticized for poor color science/ergonomics/overheating/weathersealing/etc.... Those buyers are cross shopping $2500-$5000 bodies, not $600-$900 entry level body+lens kits and perhaps things like IBIS and dual slots do matter.

But I understand Canon doesn't have to cater to this crowd, because it still has 90% of the rest of the camera market and that market is what pays its bills. Yet, I also know we went from dual and triple lens smartphones in 2018 to 108MP 1/1.33" penta-cams in 2019, so that 90% of the market is also under the most pressure from being eroded by smartphones.

Either way, we will know soon because we are at the end of 2019 and Canon's new FF MILC products are due early next year. I'm hoping they will offer something I personally want in a FF system, but as you said, I'm just a mosquito bite on an elephant. Even the lot of us only make up 10% of the market...

 

[amorse]

It was more of a joke, in that it was a reference to the last scenes in the old Clint Eastwood spaghetti western, a Fist Full of Dollars....where he with his .45 does against the villain with a winchester...you know, the scene where Clint taunts him to 'aim for the heart' or you'll never stop me....keeps getting shot but keeps getting back up, and then when the villain is out of ammo, Clint opens his poncho and reveals a steel iron plate he'd hammered out and had hanging over his chest to protect him?

Maybe I'm getting old....but did no one else get the reference?

I can't comment on you getting old, maybe I'm too young. With that said, that sounds like a scene I want to see haha.

 

[AlanF]

It was more of a joke, in that it was a reference to the last scenes in the old Clint Eastwood spaghetti western, a Fist Full of Dollars....where he with his .45 does against the villain with a winchester...you know, the scene where Clint taunts him to 'aim for the heart' or you'll never stop me....keeps getting shot but keeps getting back up, and then when the villain is out of ammo, Clint opens his poncho and reveals a steel iron plate he'd hammered out and had hanging over his chest to protect him?

Maybe I'm getting old....but did no one else get the reference?

I got it (and it was the basis of my earlier joke, which you had realised)! It was a great spaghetti western

 

[cayenne]

I can't comment on you getting old, maybe I'm too young. With that said, that sounds like a scene I want to see haha.

OH by all means, if you've not seen the Clint Eastwood Trilogy Spaghetti westerns, do find time maybe on a cold weekend day at home, and watch them.

I love them all, but of course my favorite is The Good, The Bad and Then Ugly...

But that last scene I mentioned in Fist Full of Dollars, it is a reference to something that was said earlier in the movie...and worked out very well.

The trilogy:
Fist Full of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

They aren't necessarily a sequence of movies that have a continuing story...you can watch them in any order, and I think they get better and better as you watch them in order (story, production, etc)....

They are true classics and hope you have time to enjoy them some time.

Make sure and hunt for editions you can watch that are in wide screen format....Sergio Leone used it to perfection as an artist, IMHO.

Ok, sorry about hijacking the thread....but this hit upon some of my fav movies.....

Back to camera rumors!!


C

 

[AlanF]

Fist Full of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

That pretty well sums up the top end of the camera market (and somewhat lower as well).

 

[amorse]

...Sony has taken both Nikon and Canon's lead this last year outselling both its competitors FF MILC and FF DSLR bodies combined in quantity and value via BCN in Japan. Those buyers MUST clearly find something appealing with Sony's FF products to show that kind of growth even when they are continually criticized for poor color science/ergonomics/overheating/weathersealing/etc....

I don't mean to downplay Sony's success, they have done very well as of late, but I would suspect that the driving factor in making up so much growth in the full frame market was related to them releasing the a7III with very competitive specs at a substantially lower price than the competition, combined with a lot of favourable press.

I mean the a7III shipped at launch in a kit at $2200 and had arguably comparable specifications to the 5D IV which shipped body only for $3500 and over $4000 with a lens. I think we can safely assume that the a7III was a big driver considering that whenever we see statistics of best selling mirrorless cameras (APS-C or full frame), the a7III is amongst the top sellers, despite being substantially more expensive than bodies like the m50 or a6000 etc. which tend to lead that sales space. We know full frame bodies are not large volume sellers, but the a7III certainly seemed to be a pretty large volume seller when compared to other full frame bodies.

Part of me suspects that this is why Canon released the R and RP at the price points they did - both cameras are pretty affordable by Canon's standards (with the R becoming more so affordable later in its life). I think Canon even suggested that their lower sales numbers were due to very significant competition on price points, which resulted in some hefty discounts (even now) so there may be some truth in that hypothesis.

 

[privatebydesign]

Yes, but also, within the FF segment which has a specific demographic (~10% of the overall camera market share), Sony has taken both Nikon and Canon's lead this last year outselling both its competitors FF MILC and FF DSLR bodies combined in quantity and value via BCN in Japan. Those buyers MUST clearly find something appealing with Sony's FF products to show that kind of growth even when they are continually criticized for poor color science/ergonomics/overheating/weathersealing/etc.... Those buyers are cross shopping $2500-$5000 bodies, not $600-$900 entry level body+lens kits and perhaps things like IBIS and dual slots do matter.

But I understand Canon doesn't have to cater to this crowd, because it still has 90% of the rest of the camera market and that market is what pays its bills. Yet, I also know we went from dual and triple lens smartphones in 2018 to 108MP 1/1.33" penta-cams in 2019, so that 90% of the market is also under the most pressure from being eroded by smartphones.

Either way, we will know soon because we are at the end of 2019 and Canon's new FF MILC products are due early next year. I'm hoping they will offer something I personally want in a FF system, but as you said, I'm just a mosquito bite on an elephant. Even the lot of us only make up 10% of the market...

The Japanese market, particularly the higher end market, is incredibly new tech sensitive, the are also very model age sensitive. What new high end FF cameras have Canon released in the last year as opposed to Sony? There is your answer. Next year when Canon probably release high end FF DSLR's and MILC's do you think Sony will still best them in that very narrow market segment?

 

[Architect1776]

Almost every manufacturer has some form of IBIS. Even Fuji has IBIS on its GFX 100 (although the body is substantially larger). But FF Sony bodies are about the smallest, and none of the current models overheat while recording 4K video with IBIS on. I think most companies have already figured out how to implement this properly, but Canon, not yet having a FF body with IBIS will have to start somewhere if they haven't already.

Buy a Sony, take it apart and copy the crap out of it with some small variation, problem solved.

 

[jeanluc]

“Focused on dynamic range”
I’ll believe that when I see it. Has Canon ever acknowledged that they are behind in this department?

IMHO DR in 5D4 and R is actually pretty good, but any improvement is obviously a good thing.

 

[raptor3x]

Secondly, because IBIS by definition means the sensor has to be able to move in relation to the lens mount, it also means the thermal path between the sensor and the outside of the body is seriously compromised (in the absence of ducted or peltier cooling). With a traditional fixed sensor, you can have a solid high density thermal path allowing heat from the sensor to be conducted to the body, from where it can be shed by radiant heat loss. With IBIS, you have at best a thin flexible connector with much lower thermal conductivity between the sensor and body shell, so it's much harder to move the heat out.

This isn't correct. The majority of IBIS systems move on a series of surface bearings which provide a fair amount of heat transfer surface. It seems like many people think that an IBIS sensor is somehow floating in space suspended by magnets or something which is not true. IBIS is really not a big deal for heat transfer, just look at how the Sony 6300, which has no IBIS, has worse overheating characteristics than the A6500, which does have IBIS.

 

[unfocused]

IMHO DR in 5D4 and R is actually pretty good, but any improvement is obviously a good thing.

Well, even the much maligned DPR has said that Dynamic Range on the current generation of Canon sensors is pretty good.

 

[amorse]

Well, even the much maligned DPR has said that Dynamic Range on the current generation of Canon sensors is pretty good.

DR was something I wanted to improve upon when I was using a 6D, but honestly with the 5D IV it hasn't been an issue at all. I just don't find myself clipping that much, and I haven't found the shadow noise disruptive at all in recovery or processing. I think as long as you know the camera's limitations you can work around them. I don't think my images would be any better if I had an extra stop of DR, frankly.

 

[Sporgon]

The trilogy:
Fist Full of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

They aren't necessarily a sequence of movies that have a continuing story...you can watch them in any order, and I think they get better and better as you watch them in order (story, production, etc)....

Just to be picky; The Good, The Bad & The Ugly was shot last but in the time line of the Trilogy it's the first. We see where Blonde gets his poncho and it's set in the American Civil war when Clint is using a percussion revolver converted to use metallic cartridges. In the other two he's using the Colt SAA introduced in 1873.

Great films and great musical scores.

Yes I got the reference and i don't think it's cause for anyone to get on their high horse with or without a Peacemaker

 

[MadScotsman]

Market analysis and hard data will win, Canon spend millions of dollars a year on both, they will release IBIS if and when they project it is financially advantageous for them to do it. Several anonymous forum posters, even if they numbered in the dozens, amount to less than a mosquito bite on an elephant and are neither authoritative nor have a value from an accurate market analysis point of view.

And Canon’s numbers reflect this strategy. In a red ocean market that’s drawing a LOT of blood across ALL of the players, Canon continues to survive and even prosper (relatively) on the strength of their marketing decisions.

Listening to photo forum amateurs is not in their best interest.

And they know it.

 

[slclick]

Just to be picky; The Good, The Bad & The Ugly was shot last but in the time line of the Trilogy it's the first. We see where Blonde gets his poncho and it's set in the American Civil war when Clint is using a percussion revolver converted to use metallic cartridges. In the other two he's using the Colt SAA introduced in 1873.

Great films and great musical scores.

Yes I got the reference and i don't think it's cause for anyone to get on their high horse with or without a Peacemaker

I got the reference, yet not immediately since I do love Clints westerns however not big on memorizing lines. My mind wasn't on film when I posted that response, just wanting the forum to stay on topic and not stray into typical areas that degrade good dialog. Not a high horse, just cautionary. Why you would judge it so is even more curious. Wouldn't you agree that that path is a slippery slope? I like it here, I enjoy your input as well but I have seen it far too often and was just asking to steer clear of a certain volatile topic. I misinterpreted the post and , well, being human and fallible, it happens. My apologies.

 

[Sporgon]

I got the reference, yet not immediately since I do love Clints westerns however not big on memorizing lines. My mind wasn't on film when I posted that response, just wanting the forum to stay on topic and not stray into typical areas that degrade good dialog. Not a high horse, just cautionary. Why you would judge it so is even more curious. Wouldn't you agree that that path is a slippery slope? I like it here, I enjoy your input as well but I have seen it far too often and was just asking to steer clear of a certain volatile topic. I misinterpreted the post and , well, being human and fallible, it happens. My apologies.

Apologies, I was using "high horse" as a joke on the Western theme

I know what you mean and don't disagree.

 

[danielguillamon]

 

[slclick]

View attachment 187715

Tell us more...

 

[Deleted member 379512]

Well, even the much maligned DPR has said that Dynamic Range on the current generation of Canon sensors is pretty good.

With the exception of the 6dmk2 and eos RP, where the DR is lower than the majority of the current market, it looks like Canon have bridged the DR gap.

I think these two camera are the only reason this con can still be used against Canon sensors

(edited R to RP, thanks Joules for the typo catch)