The Canon EOS R1 will come well before the EOS R5 Mark II [CR3]

[john1970]

Trying to get the chat back onto topic. Frankly, I am glad to hear that the R1 is going to be release sooner (i.e., before the R5 Mk2) than later. May there is still a chance that Canon releases two versions of the R1: R1s (speed) and R1h (high-resolution), but I do not know. I am sure that the camera will be amazing in many other ways besides resolution. I also look forward hearing about what the R5 Mk2 offers, which I am sure will include some trickle-down features from the R1.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Some people like to complain about other members, and/or about Canon generally. Perhaps those people should ask themselves how many technical questions posed by other members they have answered. How many images they’ve shared with the community. In other words, what value do they bring to the forums?

(Hint: edumacatin’ us poor, benighted Canon users about all the far gooder brands out there is not adding value.)

 

[Bob Howland]

Trying to get the chat back onto topic. Frankly, I am glad to hear that the R1 is going to be release sooner (i.e., before the R5 Mk2) than later. May there is still a chance that Canon releases two versions of the R1: R1s (speed) and R1h (high-resolution), but I do not know. I am sure that the camera will be amazing in many other ways besides resolution. I also look forward hearing about what the R5 Mk2 offers, which I am sure will include some trickle-down features from the R1.

I can think of a half-dozen directions that Canon might take the R1 but I can never decide which one of them Canon will use. One thing I am sure of, there will be no R1h super high resolution model. Both Canon and Nikon tried that. The 5D2 killed the 1Ds line and Nikon replaced the D3X with the D800: 50% more pixels, a less rugged body and a 60% price reduction.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

May there is still a chance that Canon releases two versions of the R1: R1s (speed) and R1h (high-resolution), but I do not know.

That would be highly unlikely. Canon has never done it before with the 1D line. It's made for speed, which rules out high resolution.

Two versions of R5 (similar to 5DIV and 5Ds) - maybe. But more likely they'll make the R5II a higher-res model (e.g. 60Mp) and the R6 line will stay a lower-res line. The R1 will be somewhere in the middle.

That is if you're waiting for a high-res Canon R camera, you should probably wait for the R5II (or switch to Sony...)

 

[Cariboucoach]

That would be highly unlikely. Canon has never done it before with the 1D line. It's made for speed, which rules out high resolution.

Two versions of R5 (similar to 5DIV and 5Ds) - maybe. But more likely they'll make the R5II a higher-res model (e.g. 60Mp) and the R6 line will stay a lower-res line. The R1 will be somewhere in the middle.

That is if you're waiting for a high-res Canon R camera, you should probably wait for the R5II (or switch to Sony...)

Back in May 2007, Canon released the 1D mark III at 10.1mp. Then in Nov. 2007 they released the 1Ds mark III at 21.1mp. That is not HIGH resolution, but it is 2 differing cameras in the 1D line and the second at twice the resolution. Then they were combined in the 1D X line

 

[Ph0t0]

That would be highly unlikely. Canon has never done it before with the 1D line. It's made for speed, which rules out high resolution.

Actually Canon has done that 3 times before with the 1D/1Ds line.
And only once with 5D/5Ds(r) line.

And I'm not saying that that they will do it again, because things change, market changes... but they've definitely done it before.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Back in May 2007, Canon released the 1D mark III at 18.7mp. Then in Nov. 2007 they released the 1Ds mark III at 21.1mp. That is not HIGH resolution, but it is 2 differing cameras in the 1D line and the second at twice the resolution. Then they were combined in the 1D X line

10.1 MP for the 1DIII, I think you mean. But then a year later, the 5DII came along with the same MP count as the 1DsIII. The 5-series kept gaining MPs, the 1-series did not.

 

[Cariboucoach]

10.1 MP for the 1DIII, I think you mean. But then a year later, the 5DII came along with the same MP count as the 1DsIII. The 5-series kept gaining MPs, the 1-series did not.

Yes, 10.1mp. I misread the dimentions of the sensor, 28.1 x 18.7.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Back in May 2007, Canon released the 1D mark III at 18.7mp. Then in Nov. 2007 they released the 1Ds mark III at 21.1mp. That is not HIGH resolution, but it is 2 differing cameras in the 1D line and the second at twice the resolution. Then they were combined in the 1D X line

21Mp is not twice the resolution against 18.7.
Yes I was wrong about 'never', very first 1D cameras were low on resolution by modern standards. But since circa 2004-2007, 1D line cameras have been around 20Mp, that's 17 years...

The R1 will have around 30Mp at best, likely less.

 

[Cariboucoach]

21Mp is not twice the resolution against 18.7.
Yes I was wrong about 'never', very first 1D cameras were low on resolution by modern standards. But since circa 2004-2007, 1D line cameras have been around 20Mp, that's 20 years...

The R1 will have around 30Mp at best, likely less.

Yes, I accidentally read one of the dimensions (28.1 x 18.7) as the resolution. But it was 10.1mp vs 21.1 that is the doubling I thought of...

 

[danfaz]

One was full-frame, the other APS-H.

EOS-1Ds Mark III - Canon Camera Museum

Here, you can find out about Canon's Interchangeable Lens Digital Cameras > Digital SLR Cameras > EOS-1Ds Mark III.

global.canon

EOS-1D Mark III - Canon Camera Museum

Here, you can find out about Canon's Interchangeable Lens Digital Cameras > Digital SLR Cameras > EOS-1D Mark III.

global.canon

 

[john1970]

That would be highly unlikely. Canon has never done it before with the 1D line. It's made for speed, which rules out high resolution.

Two versions of R5 (similar to 5DIV and 5Ds) - maybe. But more likely they'll make the R5II a higher-res model (e.g. 60Mp) and the R6 line will stay a lower-res line. The R1 will be somewhere in the middle.

That is if you're waiting for a high-res Canon R camera, you should probably wait for the R5II (or switch to Sony...)

I agree that it is highly unlikely, but it is feasible. Rumors suggest that Nikon is potentially releasing a high-speed version of the Z9. If true, would make some sense if Canon did the same with parallel announcements similar to the R6/R5.

 

[Bob Howland]

Back in May 2007, Canon released the 1D mark III at 18.7mp. Then in Nov. 2007 they released the 1Ds mark III at 21.1mp. That is not HIGH resolution, but it is 2 differing cameras in the 1D line and the second at twice the resolution. Then they were combined in the 1D X line

I remember things a bit differently. As others have stated, the 1D3 was about 10MP. The 1Ds3 was introduced in the third week in August 2007. Also introduced that week were the Canon 40D, which I ordered, and, more importantly, the Nikon D3 and D300 which created a major sensation. In 2007, 21.1MP was very much high resolution. The 40D was 10MP APS-C, the D3 was 12MP FF and the D300 was 12MP APS-C. As Neuro pointed out, the 5D2, also with 21MP, was introduced within a year and effectively destroyed the market for the 1DS3. A local camera shop sold dozens of 5D2's but ended up selling their two 1Ds3's in stock on ebay.

The 1Dx wasn't really combining the lines. By that time, the 1D3 had been replaced by the 1D4 and the 1Ds line was dead. (Update: Unfortunately, Nikon had replaced the D3 with the D3S, still 12MP but arguably the first DSLR capable of publication quality images at ISO12800. And the D4 was only a few months away.) The 5D3 was introduced with the 1Dx and used essentially the same focusing system. I bought a 5D3 and have used it for ten years. The 1Dx was Canon's response to the Nikon D3s which had replaced the D3. The 1Dx replaced the 1D line. Not everybody was happy about it. Some sports photographers had come to the depend on the APS-H crop and wanted it continued. Arguably the 7D2 was Canon's response to that demand.

FYI, look here. https://global.canon/en/c-museum/camera.html?s=dslr

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I remember things a bit differently. As others have stated, the 1D3 was about 10MP.

Even the full-frame equivalent of the 1D III would be 16 MP.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The 1Dx wasn't really combining the lines.

Here’s what Canon had to say about that. Seems they felt differently.

To date, Canon has developed its top-of-the-line digital SLR cameras through the 1Ds series, which delivers exceptionally high image quality, and the 1D series, which achieves superlative high-speed performance. Integrating the strengths of these two series, Canon’s new professional flagship model, the EOS-1D X, brings together the highest levels of image quality and speed performance.

(That was from the PR for the 1D X.)

 

[DrD]

Also...folks, remember that Nikon released their flagship D6 in 2020, 3 years after their prominent D850, plus it had a 21MP sensor (same as 2016 D5) but had a new processor, double the frame rate in stills than the D850 (14 vs 7), better ISO, improved AF etc..... and wait for it...less than half the resolution of the D850!

We should remember who these top of the range camera bodies are intended for. Moreover, what new stuff that appears in the flagship bodies does trickle down to the other camera models (Digic X arrived in the 1DX III and is ubiquitous among Canon mirrorless cameras today). Personally, I am looking forwards to the R1 and it's new processor(s) cos' I will likely get it later this year when the R5 II arrives.

 

[Bahrd]

Spotted the idea on another forum and liked it:

1. Use a 44x33 sensor (say, 100mpx) and sell it as a "multi-aspect with all standard lenses".
2. Make the new TS-RFs cover the whole sensor.

 

[Bob Howland]

To date, Canon has developed its top-of-the-line digital SLR cameras through the 1Ds series, which delivers exceptionally high image quality, and the 1D series, which achieves superlative high-speed performance. Integrating the strengths of these two series, Canon’s new professional flagship model, the EOS-1D X, brings together the highest levels of image quality and speed performance

(That was from the PR for the 1D X.)

What would you expect them to say, that the D3 caught them by surprise and it took them 4 years to recover or that they wildly underestimated the effect that the 5D2 would have on 1Ds3 sales? We don't know how they "felt" only what their PR said. (Update: And PR very often lies.)

 

[john1970]

Also...folks, remember that Nikon released their flagship D6 in 2020, 3 years after their prominent D850, plus it had a 21MP sensor (same as 2016 D5) but had a new processor, double the frame rate in stills than the D850 (14 vs 7), better ISO, improved AF etc..... and wait for it...less than half the resolution of the D850!

We should remember who these top of the range camera bodies are intended for. Moreover, what new stuff that appears in the flagship bodies does trickle down to the other camera models (Digic X arrived in the 1DX III and is ubiquitous among Canon mirrorless cameras today). Personally, I am looking forwards to the R1 and it's new processor(s) cos' I will likely get it later this year when the R5 II arrives.

All very good points especially with regards to the trickle down technology.

 

[john1970]

When Canon released the R3 in Nov 2021 they stated the following:

"The sensor’s specification has been optimised to be the perfect balance between resolution, low-light performance and transmittable file size, meeting the requirements of professional news and sports photographers. Digital Lens Optimizer maximises the detail that’s possible from the lens in combination with the sensor, to offer image quality way beyond expectations."

The R1 is also a professional sports photography camera and I anticipate a similar philosophy (even though I as a wildlife photographer would iike more resolution.)

With that said, there are still numerous areas besides resolution where Canon can improve in the R1 vs. the R3 (e.g., 1000 frame buffer at maximum frame rate, X-type AF sensors, RAW Burst Mode with deeper buffer, faster AF calculations (60 Hz to 120 Hz). Dual CFE slots and spot metering linked to AF points are a given.

We shall see....