The New EOS [CR3]

[wockawocka]

Maybe:

18th Oct - 1D4x, Bayer sensor, Full frame, Exceptional Lowlight and dynamic range designed to run alongside the 1D4
26th October - 1DS4 - Foveon, huge MP
3rd Nov - Video Cameras and 5D3

With the olympics next year it makes sense to out everything before then to make sure it's wall to wall Canon for 2012, pleases all camps.

If this were to happen it'll be a tough act for any manufacturer to follow.

 

[mediobarco]

The new feature is the 3rd processor dedicated only for de AF system.

 

[Picsfor]

The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution). So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center. (edges and corners are another matter). However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor. We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?

In a word NO.

I tested my 5D2 alongside my old Canon A1, both using a 50mm f1.8 lens.

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!

 

[te4o]

The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution). So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center. (edges and corners are another matter). However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor. We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?

In a word NO.
I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!

I did not want to come off-topic on this thread but I think the issue with "matching lens to body and vice versa" is important. If you think this way too let someone start a new thread (I don't know how to do it) after 18 Oct.
To my understanding, n00ne can really say how much a "lens resolves" objectively. MTF charts from Canon are notorious by being based on technical lens design and not on measurement, Zeiss measures MTF but it doesn't reflect reality in comparisons to Nikor and Canon, subjectivity is an issue, we don't have a more than 25 MP sensors ar present, as Picsfor states even film cannot serve as a base.

Edwin points out that there are many other aspects except sharpness and everyone will agree.

What I was after in the discussion about the "NEW DSLR" is the common regularly occurring situation where you buy a DSLR and buy the best lenses you can afford to serve your purpose... and then 3-4 years later you change the body and notice half of your glass has been upgraded to Mk2 or 3 and the other half is already rumoured and you start saving again.
A new very good DSLR will come with a much higher price than listed to most of us wanting to match our lenses to optimize/maximize performance - it already happened to me in advance but I thought I could jump 10-15 years from now buying lenses capable of resolving more than double the current line.
So, an 18 MP FF is probably saving money in this respect... :

 

[gmrza]

The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution). So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center. (edges and corners are another matter). However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor. We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?

In a word NO.

I tested my 5D2 alongside my old Canon A1, both using a 50mm f1.8 lens.

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4. The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down. For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

 

[april]

i'm calling Shenanigans on the megapixels

the 18MP is stil possible as long as this new one will be a 7Ds.......... does anyone agree with me?

 

[eos650]

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4. The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down. For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

What a coincidence. I have a 60D and some new L glass and I am itching for a second body, which I hope will be FF. To tide me over, I pulled out my old EOS650 and went to the store and bought a dozen or so rolls of ISO 200 film. I took both cameras on a couple of shoots, relying primarily on my 60D, but at every opportunity, I snuck in a couple of shots with the EOS650.

After shooting 5 rolls, I had them developed and took them home to scan. I got some great shots with both, but the film images were definitely not as clear and were comparatively disappointing. It's possible that had these been professionally scanned, they may have been better. In fact I plan to shoot the remaining rolls and will have some of them professionally scanned, to see how much of a difference it makes.

I showed the film pictures to my daughter and she absolutely loved them. She said they looked so old fashioned. Hmmm....

Also, it's rather funny how dependent I have become on the LCD. When shooting with the EOS650, I find myself occasionally looking at the back, wanting to confirm some of my shots.

Not knowing what you are getting certainly adds to the anticipation, while waiting to get them developed.

 

[Justin]

I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

Which mirrorless FF are you sticking with? Canon has made several film models with non moving pellix mirrors (like Sony) over the years, they used the same lenses.

The only way I am able to make sense of a camera with these rumored specs is if it is a complete departure from the existing canon lineup. Other rumors on the web (see 4/3 rumors and Photography Bay) suggest a mirror less digital full frame sensor camera from Canon.

By canon releasing a camera like this (mirrorless 35mm size sensor, etc) it is in a way a response to Nikon's mirrorless efforts, just far and away a more professionally oriented tool.

but where are the additional details? More leaked info? Teaser campaign? This doesn't add up for a Tuesday release...

 

[Meh]

Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H. A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

 

[Loswr]

Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H. A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

In fact, just prior to reading this post, that's what I suggested in the thread on irony.

 

[Doodah]

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology. In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust. But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6). The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys.

This has been brought up gazillion times before in different places. But for unknown reasons, it has failed to gain widespread acceptance.

 

[Doodah]

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1.

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4. The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down. For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

Thanks for the info. Always curious about this.

 

[Doodah]

I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

If what you say is true, I am most DEFINITELY getting one. A mirrorless fullframe that eliminates the heavy weight from the pentaprism is at the top of my want list. That's just me though...

Excited to see what Canon has to show tomorrow

 

[Meh]

Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H. A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

In fact, just prior to reading this post, that's what I suggested in the thread on irony.

I haven't been keeping up with reading the posts for a couple of days and as I scanned through all the posts speculating as to why these specs don't make sense it occurred to me that there were a couple of themes... a) resolution is a step back from 1Ds and b) spatial resolution is a step back from 1D4 both of which ring true. On the assumption the rumour and spec list is not a complete fabrication what 1 change (Occam's Razor) would resolve both issues. APS-H would do the trick... if so, this spec list fits nicely for a 1D5.

Now that I think about more... a lot of the recent talk on the forum has been that APS-H would be discontinued to the point it may have become assumed to be true so the rumour source and all the comments just assumed it must be FF.

Let's say a new APS-H sensor, even at 18MP, has even better DR, lower noise, and better low-light performance that the 1D4 or 5D2... would it be the perfect sports, wildlife, AND wedding photographer's camera? 16MP maybe wasn't enough for wedding photos but 18MP is closer to the 21MP of the 5D2.

If anything I'm speculating makes sense, this spec list now appeals to a wider market so if Canon could sell it for say $4200 (instead of $5k for the 1D4) would it become the easy choice for working pros over a 5D3... that way Canon can increase the resolution to 30+ MP but keep the AF performance, etc. of 5D3 down to differentiate it and keep it positioned as a landscape, portrait, entry level studio.

Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???

 

[dr croubie]

Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???

Short answer, No.
Technically, Canon can release a Medium Format camera tomorrow.
But, and the big butt, is that they'd have to release a completely new line of lenses as well, only the TS-E line would have an image-circle big enough for the bigger sensor. But also, the flange distance would have to be longer than the 44.00mm of the EF line, to accommodate the bigger mirror.
(and there's other things, like the size of the mirror would reduce frame-rates, 2-3fps would be 'fast', megapixels would have to be in the 60-80MP range to compete with current Leaf, PhaseOne, Pentax, and Hasselblad backs, yada yada).

It can happen, I wish it would. But it wouldn't be called EOS, it wouldn't be called 1D(s), and it wouldn't take EF (which is fine if it is *as well* as the 1Ds4, but if MF *replaces* the 1Ds3, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off pros with lots of glass to replace).

I'm definitely thinking more and more that tomorrow will be just a 'boring' 1Dmk5 18MP APS-H @ 14fps upgrade.
But I'm still hoping for an 18*3 FF Foveon-type, which is the only acceptable way to merge the 1D-1Ds while reducing FF res and pixel density. (only other acceptable way to merge 1D-1Ds is to have a 30+MP FF which crops to 16+MP APS-H for faster fps, but i doubt that's coming tomorrow)

 

[Haydn1971]

Cheers Dr Crouble, I had in my mind that MF could be the way forward, but as you explain, the mechanics just wouldn't work the the EF system. Although, that's not to say MF couldn't happen, it would "just" need a mew lens system !

I kinda like the idea of a digital back system for the 1D/5D ranges, a standard body with a complementary set of digital backs that can be swapped out, fast/low 18 MPx, medium speed 25-30MPx, slow 40+MPx, with AF to suit each.

 

[Old Shooter]

It's fascinating to consider digital MF. I still remember my first photography class in 1974; you shot MF for quality and 35mm for cost/convenience. However, it seems that the FF sensor capabilities have yet to peak. Many good images come from the 18MP 7D sensor; yet that same pixel density would yield a 46MP FF. It would seem that as technology advances, and FF resolution nears some theoretical/practical maximum, purists seeking the ultimate IQ would venture off toward MF...

Just some random thoughts to pass the time; waiting for Tuesday's announcement like everyone else...

 

[Orion]

I was searching for any current news or snippets abou the possible 1D mkV . . . . funny how a fake add from 2009 came so close to the announcement on Tuesday, while the post even mentions the amalgamation of the 1D line:

http://forums.mycanikon.com/showthread.php?1704-Canon-1D-MKV

(my apologies if this has come up before, etc)

 

[Old Shooter]

Wow! A fake ad from 2009? Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!

 

[dr croubie]

Wow! A fake ad from 2009? Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!

They should have hired a spell checker too... :