Canon EOS 5DS Replacements Coming Next Year [CR2]

[padam]

I will be a 5D IV body with newer processors (possibly Dual Digic 8 ) and more megapixels.
It will either keep the existing memory card slots or maybe switch to UHS-II and CFast 2.0. DPAF is also still very much in question, but maybe they just upscale the 24MP APS-C sensor to FF and remove the AA filter or it will be something brand new.

 

[glness]

I don't care what name Canon gives this new camera or develops a new line. I don't care whether it is mirrorless or a traditional DSLR. I don't care about more megapixels than the present 5DS R—50mp is already great! I don't want to wait until 2019. What I want is a higher resolution (50mp), high dynamic range (14+), 10fps full-frame Canon camera for wildlife and landscapes like Nikon (D850) and Sony (a7R III) already nearly have. I have the 1DX II and it is a superb camera for its purpose, but there are many times when 20mp just doesn't cut it. I also have the current 5DS R and the 5D Mark IV. They are good cameras, but they are not the answer and innovation needed. Please fill this missing and important product category in your lineup!

 

[unfocused]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

The most recent Canon Rumors story about the 120 mp sensor references "advanced imagery and manufacturing applications" which doesn't sound like a consumer product.

That story in turn linked to a 2015 release referencing a 120mp DSLR "being developed." That release made no mention of sensor size. 120 mp full frame or APS-C? Big difference and unlikely to be APS-H since Canon abandoned that format for consumer products with the release of the 1Dx.

I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

 

[unfocused]

Canon has evidently done market research and considers that the marginal revenue from making two different high megapixel bodies (1Ds & 5Ds series) wouldn't offset the marginal cost.

I don't think that they have fully considered the high end as a system: there are quite a few photographers that want both a 1D and a 1Ds model...

As is often pointed out on this forum, speculation about what "quite a few photographer want" is not the same as actual market research. Looking at the last 5Ds release, it appears to me that Canon has done the market research and determined that making a unique high megapixel body wouldn't offset the marginal cost. They then determined that the most cost-effective solution was to save manufacturing and design costs by modifying an existing body and the body they found most cost-effective was the 5D series.

I doubt very much if the market has changed enough that they will find it cost-effective to use anything but the 5D IV basic body design for the next generation of 5Ds.

While some might want a mirrorless design and Neuro might want a 1D-style body, I suspect his own rational assessment of market forces would lead him to agree.

At the moment, the best they can do is a 1DX II and a 5DsR, but these two bodies have a different enough control layout to bring cognitive dissonances when switching from one to the other...

I would have to disagree with this. I regularly use both a 1DX II and a 5D IV and find switching between these two bodies almost seamless. About the only major difference in controls that I can think of is the absence of a mode dial on the 1D series and I suspect that I am fairly typical in that I have my preferred mode and I change it rarely enough that I don't find it that difficult to switch between the two.

Perhaps it's just difference use cases, but I would be curious what sort of "cognitive differences" you struggle with.

 

[privatebydesign]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

 

[BillB]

I will be a 5D IV body with newer processors (possibly Dual Digic 8 ) and more megapixels.
It will either keep the existing memory card slots or maybe switch to UHS-II and CFast 2.0. DPAF is also still very much in question, but maybe they just upscale the 24MP APS-C sensor to FF and remove the AA filter or it will be something brand new.

Likely you are right about the 5D body, but maybe they will decide it needs two batteries.

 

[3kramd5]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

190MPish

120MP*860mm2/550mm2

181MP if you don’t grossly round off to generic areas and instead use linear pixel density.

(36mm/29mm*13280px)*(24mm/20mm*9184px)/1,000,000

 

[Talys]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

Sweet. So a 64GB memory card will hold like, 100 pictures

 

[unfocused]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

190MPish

120MP*860mm2/550mm2

181MP if you don’t grossly round off to generic areas and instead use linear pixel density.

(36mm/29mm*13280px)*(24mm/20mm*9184px)/1,000,000

Okay, I was going 120 x 1.3 x 1.3 =202.8, but I probably have that wrong.

 

[3kramd5]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

190MPish

120MP*860mm2/550mm2

181MP if you don’t grossly round off to generic areas and instead use linear pixel density.

(36mm/29mm*13280px)*(24mm/20mm*9184px)/1,000,000

Okay, I was going 120 x 1.3 x 1.3 =202.8, but I probably have that wrong.

That would work but the ratio (crop factor) is closer to 1.25 than 1.3.

 

[Maiaibing]

Sweet. So a 64GB memory card will hold like, 100 pictures

In case which a 512 gb card for 40$ would hold like 800 pictures...

 

[rrcphoto]

Are memory cards keeping pace? ‍

https://www.dpreview.com/news/9327963087/prograde-demonstrates-first-ever-1tb-cfexpress-card-with-1-400mb-s-read-speed

I hope that Canon are forward thinking enough to include the CF Express standard on future high end cameras, but I’m not getting my hopes up. Very few manufacturers get it right by including two slots of the same type; you wouldn’t have a RAID setup with vastly different drive speeds, so why would you want that on a camera with dual cards (which you effectively use as RAID 1)?

as with CPU's on computers, you have limited number of bus lanes for I/O,the faster the interface the more lanes are necessary.

 

[rrcphoto]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

The most recent Canon Rumors story about the 120 mp sensor references "advanced imagery and manufacturing applications" which doesn't sound like a consumer product.

That story in turn linked to a 2015 release referencing a 120mp DSLR "being developed." That release made no mention of sensor size. 120 mp full frame or APS-C? Big difference and unlikely to be APS-H since Canon abandoned that format for consumer products with the release of the 1Dx.

I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

canon's already stated they are developing a 120MP DSLR.

that's a hard cold fact, that was released as an official announcement from Japan Inc.

the fact that they have a 120MP APS-H sensor, is most likely coincidence. they had to work on scale out, and APS-H is an economical size because it's the largest single exposure a stepper can do at a time.

 

[3kramd5]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

The most recent Canon Rumors story about the 120 mp sensor references "advanced imagery and manufacturing applications" which doesn't sound like a consumer product.

That story in turn linked to a 2015 release referencing a 120mp DSLR "being developed." That release made no mention of sensor size. 120 mp full frame or APS-C? Big difference and unlikely to be APS-H since Canon abandoned that format for consumer products with the release of the 1Dx.

I'm not privy to the sources that CR Guy relies on, but it sort of feels like we are being fed a mishmash of unrelated tidbits purely for the purpose of generating web traffic. I hope that is not the case.

canon's already stated they are developing a 120MP DSLR.

that's a hard cold fact, that was released as an official announcement from Japan Inc.

the fact that they have a 120MP APS-H sensor, is most likely coincidence

agreed, it’s very Unlikely that aged sensor has anything to do with a new product, other than maybe as a surrogate (for example to generate data) in circuit development.

 

[ashmadux]

Ever notice how when it's early in the year, we get hints that canon is dropping something that's practically overdue...

"NEXT" year.

At this point, who cares...too slow, see ya in 8 months.

PS- YAWN :-\

 

[traveller]

Canon has evidently done market research and considers that the marginal revenue from making two different high megapixel bodies (1Ds & 5Ds series) wouldn't offset the marginal cost.

I don't think that they have fully considered the high end as a system: there are quite a few photographers that want both a 1D and a 1Ds model...

As is often pointed out on this forum, speculation about what "quite a few photographer want" is not the same as actual market research. Looking at the last 5Ds release, it appears to me that Canon has done the market research and determined that making a unique high megapixel body wouldn't offset the marginal cost. They then determined that the most cost-effective solution was to save manufacturing and design costs by modifying an existing body and the body they found most cost-effective was the 5D series.

I doubt very much if the market has changed enough that they will find it cost-effective to use anything but the 5D IV basic body design for the next generation of 5Ds.

While some might want a mirrorless design and Neuro might want a 1D-style body, I suspect his own rational assessment of market forces would lead him to agree.

Yeah, I'm sure that Canon's market research told them there wasn't enough demand for a new 1Ds, which is why they build the 5Ds only -hence why I wrote that in my first comment. Whilst my perception is purely anecdotal, I would question how comprehensive Canon's market research actually is: have you ever received a survey? No one that I know ever has, though one friend is quite close to the local rep and he told him that Canon thought the 1Ds series couldn't compete with medium format (this was before all the 'affordable' MF options came around -other than the 645D). Need we forget that Nikon's marketing told them that there was huge demand for a range of new action cameras...

At the moment, the best they can do is a 1DX II and a 5DsR, but these two bodies have a different enough control layout to bring cognitive dissonances when switching from one to the other...

I would have to disagree with this. I regularly use both a 1DX II and a 5D IV and find switching between these two bodies almost seamless. About the only major difference in controls that I can think of is the absence of a mode dial on the 1D series and I suspect that I am fairly typical in that I have my preferred mode and I change it rarely enough that I don't find it that difficult to switch between the two.

Perhaps it's just difference use cases, but I would be curious what sort of "cognitive differences" you struggle with.

I'm glad that you find changing between bodies so simple, maybe it's usage case, maybe you're just very talented ;-)

Personally, I hate having two cameras where the top button layouts are almost entirely different, such as with the 1D and 5D series:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#682,655,ha,t

I think this difference is farcical, pick one layout and stick with it unless there is a very good reason not to. I happen to dislike both arrangements, I think the two button press on the 1D is not necessary and the dial on the 5D is limiting as it is the only 'hard' control point (other than the power switch) -meaning that you can't change modes when shooting remotely.

 

[Maiaibing]

If its 100 MPIX+ I'll buy for sure, but I fear an agonising 80 MPIX.

Too little to justify upgrading the 5DS/R. Too much to ignore if the "packaging" is interesting (swivel screen, dual pixels etc.).

Anything less than 80 MPIX is not for me.

 

[Talys]

I will almost certainly buy this if it has:

- Swivel screen
- 6fps+
- 15+ picture buffer at full uncompressed resolution

I don't think that is too much to ask for, right?

 

[NancyP]

More dynamic range, say, an extra stop. Same number of MP.
Really, folks - I want to see your computer specs, if you are ecstatic about the prospect of crunching 100+ MP files! OK, so I have an older computer... I do figure in the cost of computer upgrade to the cost of a higher MP camera. A tilt screen that didn't make it impossible to use L brackets would be nice.

 

[privatebydesign]

I find this all confusing and contradictory.

The mystery 120 APS-H sensor is not the same as a 120 mp sensor for the 5Ds series. An APS-H 120 mp sensor would scale out to about 202 mp correct?

No. It would scale to 315MP.

190MPish

120MP*860mm2/550mm2

181MP if you don’t grossly round off to generic areas and instead use linear pixel density.

(36mm/29mm*13280px)*(24mm/20mm*9184px)/1,000,000

Sorry yes, I was thinking APS-C not APS-H. Stupid Canon...