Canon EOS R1 prototypes are in the wild [CR3]

[john1970]

So, does this mean if the R1 has a 45 MP Stacked sensor, the R5 mkii would be a non-stacked 45 MP Sensor like the current R5?
I think it's more plausible, R6 mkii and R3 are low res non-stacked and stacked models, R5 mkii and R1 are high res non-stacked and stacked models.
Otherwise, what would differentiate the R5 mkii to the R1 other then it's speed capability from having a stacked sensor?
I still think if there is a 60+MP model, it would end up being a R5s variant as the high MP sensor would cripple a lot of the video features with a ton of rolling shutter and be more photo focused.
Either way until we have announcements, it's fun to speculate and guess based on rumors.

As you mention pure speculation.

If Canon wants to have a similar lineup to the Nikon Z8/Z9 then I would suspect the R5 MkII to have a stacked sensor as well as the R1.

Even if both cameras have a stacked sensor you could hypothesize that the following properties would differentiate the cameras:

1) Maximum frame rate and one that is user adjustable in 1 fps steps on the R1
2) Buffer depth (both during shooting and pre-shooting) significantly greater on R1
3) Focusing speed on the R1. I think the R3 does 60 calculations / second. Would expect an increase in the R1.
4) Dust and weather sealing
5) Spot metering linked to AF point (always a 1-series feature that I wished Canon would trickle down to 5-series cameras)

Those are the five that come to mind this morning.

 

[TonyG]

As you mention pure speculation.

If Canon wants to have a similar lineup to the Nikon Z8/Z9 then I would suspect the R5 MkII to have a stacked sensor as well as the R1.

Even if both cameras have a stacked sensor you could hypothesize that the following properties would differentiate the cameras:

1) Maximum frame rate and one that is user adjustable in 1 fps steps on the R1
2) Buffer depth (both during shooting and pre-shooting) significantly greater on R1
3) Focusing speed on the R1. I think the R3 does 60 calculations / second. Would expect an increase in the R1.
4) Dust and weather sealing
5) Spot metering linked to AF point (always a 1-series feature that I wished Canon would trickle down to 5-series cameras)

Those are the five that come to mind this morning.

The Z8/9 is their flagship, it competes with the R1 and therefore I would expect the R1 to have a stacked sensor, especially since the R3 (current flagship) has a stacked sensor.
I highly doubt the R5 would have a stacked sensor as that would also increase the price of the camera.
Let's not forget how many rumors were out there that the R6 mkii was supposed to have a stacked sensor, literally up until a few minutes before it was actually announced.
IF the R6 mkii got a stacked sensor, then I would say sure the R5 mkii might have a stacked sensor, otherwise there is no need to give the R5 a stacked sensor as it does not need it for what it is and what market share it competes in.

Nikon has their model line up, so does Sony and none of the three brands have a direct comparison to each other except for a few models such as the flag ships. For example, The A7siii and the R5 have nothing in common in MP other then they both have 4k 120 capability.

The way I currently see the Canon line up is:
R6 Low Res Non-Stacked
R5 High Res Non-Stacked
R3 Low Res Stacked
R1 High Res Stacked
With the Stacked Sensor models having the capability of Ludacris shooting speeds and its benefits.

 

[LSXPhotog]

I’m very eager for this camera because I would love to have a tandem of shared ergonomic cameras that use the same battery (although, I would love to see a new, better battery that was backwards compatible) I rocked dual R3 bodies for about a year and it was spectacular, but I still need a high resolution camera for some of the photography I do. I say “need” as if I haven’t been shooting for 20 years and didn’t “need” it for the longest time. But once you can zoom in and edit at a pixel level on a 45mp image, it’s hard to go back to using 20-24mp for editorial purposes. But I sold off one of my R3 bodies a couple months back to clear the stable for the pending R1 and possible R5 Mark II. Ideally, I would prefer to get an R1 and it replace my previous R3 and R5 in a single camera and use the same batteries and a single charger when I travel.

 

[kaihp]

Canon is about to surprise everyone who has not been included as a CE or advisor.. To those who say they are happy with 24MP... The R1 can still be for you.... Just dial it down. When you want greater resolution it wiil be there.

We have been early adopters of every Canon 1DX, 1DXMKII, 1DXMKIII, R3, Canon is not leaving enough time before the Olympics for those who want full crews with new bodies and glass to take full workflow into consideration. Our automation and multi-teathered cameras on robotic arms need a lot of tweaking and I know the bugs will need additional time.... Since many of us commited to automation the the LAN/WAN/SAN formulation is still not worked out for our trucks and BO&E. The R1 might be better for those not commited to the massive layers of adopting for the newer robotic systems and wating until after the Olympics.

What is CE in this context?
Surely not Conformité Européenne

Also, BO&E?

 

[AlanF]

What is CE in this context?
Surely not Conformité Européenne

Also, BO&E?

Canon Explorer of Light?

 

[SilverBox]

I’ve been overall very satisfied with my R3, however in my use the autofocus is the main thing I could complain about, so lack of quad pixel is a disappointment. (I find tracking to be fine, acquisition can be difficult in low light. My colleagues with the Sony a7rva seem to have better af)

I don’t NEED the larger pixel count, but I also can’t ever go back to non-stacked sensors from Canon. This might be a controversial take but I find the improved color rendition and latitude on the R3 compare to the R5 to be worth the megapixel deficit.

If the R5ii features a stacked sensor, and the R1 has only marginal autofocus improvements, it would be hard for me to justify an R1.

 

[john1970]

I highly doubt the R5 would have a stacked sensor as that would also increase the price of the camera.

The question is by how much? If Nikon can sell a Z8 with a 45 MP stacked sensor for $4000 and make a profit I would assume that Canon can do the same? It really depends as you mentioned how Canon wants to segment their cameras.

 

[AlanF]

I’ve been overall very satisfied with my R3, however in my use the autofocus is the main thing I could complain about, so lack of quad pixel is a disappointment. (I find tracking to be fine, acquisition can be difficult in low light. My colleagues with the Sony a7rva seem to have better af)

I don’t NEED the larger pixel count, but I also can’t ever go back to non-stacked sensors from Canon. This might be a controversial take but I find the improved color rendition and latitude on the R3 compare to the R5 to be worth the megapixel deficit.

If the R5ii features a stacked sensor, and the R1 has only marginal autofocus improvements, it would be hard for me to justify an R1.

How does stacking improve colour rendition?

 

[Rzrsharp]

I will hold off the placement of order for this long anticipated camera if it’s not quad pixel AF.
Canon may had ever set the bar too high for R1 and they simply couldn’t do it. This is a R0.99.

 

[padam]

If the R5ii features a stacked sensor, and the R1 has only marginal autofocus improvements, it would be hard for me to justify an R1.

While we don't know about other differences, one thing that's surely going to be a differentiator is that the R5II will be limited by a smaller battery, the R1 will be able to drive the AF motors even faster with certain lenses, run a higher-res live feed in the EVF, etc.

 

[David - Sydney]

Lastly, I really hope the rumor that the R1 has dual CF Express type C slots is wrong. CF Express type C cards are huge and I am unaware of any that are commercially available. Hopefully they utilize CF Express Type B 4.0 cards.

CFe-B 4.0 standard is probably too new for Canon to implement although it would future proof it to some extent.
They didn't put a HDMI 2.1 port in the R5 which was an oversight and would have enabled 8k or 4k120 output (reducing heat from the cards and having cheaper external storage) and the standard had been released since 2017. Unless the video is 10k then internal storage wouldn't need internal CFe-B 4.0 cards

 

[padam]

They didn't put a HDMI 2.1 port in the R5 which was an oversight and would have enabled 8k or 4k120 output (reducing heat from the cards and having cheaper external storage) and the standard had been released since 2017. Unless the video is 10k then internal storage wouldn't need internal CFe-B 4.0 cards

Nothing is really an 'oversight' when the R5C co-exists (also micro-HDMI) and have no overheating whatsoever.
The main limitation is the processor anyway, DIY Perks proved that R5 overheating problems can be mitigated just by installing an internal heatsink to transfer heat to the back of the chassis.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Unfortunately, MFT cameras (I own an Olympus), are not for me. They are just too small, sadly, like most FF cameras.
Size matters!

The G9 is the same size as the R5 and the G9 II has the body of the S5.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Either the R1 takes over the R3 price point or status quo and R1 is $10k.

It is easier to guess that the R1 will fall between those two price points.
I expect the R3 II to take over the R3 price point.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

To those who say they are happy with 24MP... The R1 can still be for you

The R3 is a perfectly fine camera.
It would be like someone who is perfectly happy with the r6II buying an R5 for no apparent reason.

 

[Del Paso]

The G9 is the same size as the R5 and the G9 II has the body of the S5.

Interesting, I didn't know! Thanks for the info!
I'll check them as soon as possible.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Nothing is really an 'oversight' when the R5C co-exists (also micro-HDMI) and have no overheating whatsoever.

The R5 C did not exist when the R5 came out, nor did the Ninja V+.
If people had known that 8K external recording was coming there would not have been so much anger on the 8K overheating when the R5 was first launched,

 

[EOS 4 Life]

The Z8/9 is their flagship

The Z 9 is their flagship.
The Z 8 is their D850 replacement.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

If Nikon can sell a Z8 with a 45 MP stacked sensor for $4000 and make a profit I would assume that Canon can do the same?

I have no idea how Nikon is doing so and I make no assumptions that Canon can do the same.
I also have no idea how Nikon would get enough people to still buy a Z 9 over a Z 8 to justify selling both cameras.

 

[Fbimages]

How does stacking improve colour rendition?

Not sure about the technicalities, but I do find the files on the R3 to be much more "pleasing" and easy to work with than the R5. The difference is noticeable when using Electronic Shutter on both bodies, less so when comparing the R3 ES vs R5 mecanical